USA > Massachusetts > Plymouth County > Plymouth > Plymouth church records, 1620-1859 > Part 8
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Again ' the Majestrates of the Cittey about the time of their Coming away or a little before in the publick place of Justice Gaue this Comendable Testimony of them in Reproffe of the Walloones (whoe were of the ffrench Church) in the Cyttey; these English (said they) haue lived amongst vs now this 12 yeers; and yett wee Neuer had any suite or accusation Came against them; but youer striffes and qvarrells are Continuall &c:
In these times alsoe were the Great troubles Raised by the Ar- minians whoe as they Greatly molested the whole state soe this Cittey in paticular, in which was the Cheiffe Vniversitie soe as there was dayly and hott disputes in the Scooles therabouts and as the
1 Here "to" is crossed out.
' Written above "wery," crossed out.
' Altered from "Against."
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PLYMOUTH CHURCH RECORDS: VOLUME I, PART I
Students and other learned were deuided in theire opinnions heerin; soe were the two professours or diuinity Readers themselues, the one daely teaching for it, and the other against it; which Grew to that passe that few of the desiples of the one would heare the other teach; But M' Robinson although hee taught thrise a weeke him- self and wrott sundry bookes besides his Manifold paines otherwise; yett hee went Constantly to heare theire Readings and heard as well one as the other; by which means hee was soe well Grounded in the Controversy and saw the force of all theire 1 Arguments and knew the shifts of the Adversary; and being himself very able, Non was fitter to buckle with them then hims[elfe] as appeered by sundry disputes, soe' as hee began to be terible to the Arminions [11] which `made epescopious 2 the Arminian Proffesor to put forth his best strength and sett out sundry thesies which by publick disputes hee would defend against all men; Now Poliander& the other professor and the Cheiffe preachers of the ‘ Citie desired M" Robinson to de- spute against him but hee was loth being a stranger yett the other did Importune him and tould him that such was the abillitie and Nimblenes of witt of the Adversary that the truth would suffer; if hee did not help them soe as hee Condecended and prepared him self against the time; and when the time came the Lord did soe healp him to defend the truth and foyle his Adversary; as hee put him to an apparent Nonplus in this Great and publick Audience; and the like hee did two or three times vpon such 5 like occations the which as it caused many to praise God that the truth had soe famous a victory soe it procured him much honor and Respect from those Learned men and others which loued the truth; yee soe farr were they from being weary of him and his people or desireing theire absence, as that it was said by some (of noe mean Note) That were it not for Giveing offence to the State of England they would haue prefered him otherwise if hee would, and allowed them some publick fauor yee when theire was speech of theire Remouall into these pīts: sundry of Note and eminensy of that Nation would haue had
1 Here a word, perhaps "singular," is crossed out.
" Above this name, which is underscored but not crossed out, is written, in a different hand, "Episcopius."
* This name is underscored.
' Here "Cyttey" is crossed out.
" Written above "a," crossed out.
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REASONS AND CAUSES OF REMOVAL FROM HOLLAND
them Come vnder them and for that end made them Large offers; Now although I might alledge many p'ticulars and examples of the Like kind to shew the vntruth and vnliklihood of this Slaunder yett these shall suffice seing it was beleiued of few being onely Raised by the Mallice of Some whoe labovred theire disgrace;
The 4th Chapt: shewing the Reasons and Causes of their Removall 1
After they had liued in this Citty about eleuen or twelue yeers; (which is the more) (obseruable) being the whole time of that famous truce 2 between that state and the Spainiards; and sundry of them were taken away by death and many others began to be well stricken in yeers; the Graue mistris Experience haueing taught them many things; these prudent Gou nors with sundry of the sagest members began both deeply to apprehend theire prsent dangers; and wisely to foresee the future and think of timly Remedy in the agitation of their thoughts and much discovrse of paticulars heerabout; the began to encline to this Conclusion of Removall to some other place Not out of Any New fangleednes or other such like Giddy humer by which men are many [time]s Transported to theire Great hurt and danger but for sundry waighty and sollid Reasons; the Cheife of which I will heer Resight and breifly touch; and first: they found and saw by experience the hardnes of the place and Country to be such as few in comparison 3 would Come to them and fewer that would bide it out; and Continew with them; for many that cam to them and many more that desired to be with them Could not In- dure the Great labour and hard fare with other Inconveniencyes which they vnder went and were Contented with; But though they loued theire pisons and approued theire Cause and honored theire sufferings, yett they left them as it were weeping as orpha did her mother in law Naomy; or as those " Romans did Catoe in vtica whoe desired to be excused; and borne with: though they could not all be Catoes;
1 This heading is written in the margin.
" A truce of twelve years was concluded between Spain and the Netherlands on March 30, 1609.
' Here the letters "wh" are crossed out.
. Here "Cato" is crossed out.
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PLYMOUTH CHURCH RECORDS: VOLUME I, PART I
1 for many though1 they desired to Injoy the ordinances of God in theire purity and the libertie of the Gospell with them yett alas they admitted of Bondage with danger, of Consience Rather then to Indure these hardshipps; yee some prefered and Chose prisons in England Rather then this libertie in holland; with these afflictions; but it was thought that if a beter and easier place of liueing Could be had it would draw many and take away these discurragements, yea theire Pastour would oftens say that many of those that both write and preached now against them if they were in a place where they might haue libertie and liue Comfortably they would then prac- tice as they did
2 They saw that although the people Generally bore all theire difficult[ies] very Chearfully and with a Resolute Currage being in the best of theire strength yett old age began to Come on some of them; and theire Great and Continewall labours with other Crosses and sorrowes hastened it before the time; soe as it was not onely probably thought, but apparently seen that within a few yeers more they were in danger to scatter by Nessesitie pressing them; or sink vnder theire burdens, or both; and therfore according to the diuine proverb; That a wise man seeth the Plague when it Cometh and hydeth himself proverbes 22: 3 soe they like skilfull and beaten souldiers were fearfull either to be Intrapped or surrounded [12] by theire enimies; soe as they should neither be able to fight nor fily and therefore thought it better to dislodge betimes to some place of better advantage and lesse danger if any Could be found;
3 As Nessesitie was a task Master ouer them; soe they were fforced to be such not onely to their servants but in a sort to theire dearest Children, the which as it did a little wound the tender harts of many a loueing father and mother soe it produced alsoe many sad and sorrowfull effects for many of theire Children that were of best dispositions and Graciouse Inclinations; haueing Learned to beare the yoake, in theire youth and willing to beare part of theire parents burden were often times, soe oppressed with theire heauy Labours; that although theire minds were ffree and willing; yett theire bodyes bowed vnder the waight of the same and became decriped in their early youth the vigour of Nature being Consumed in the very bud (as it were) But that which was more lamentable and of all sorrowes
1 Apparently altered from "thought."
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27
REASONS FOR AND AGAINST REMOVAL FROM HOLLAND
most heavy to be bourne was that many of theire Children by these occasions and the Great lysenciousnes of youth in the Country, and the manyfold temptations of the place were drawne away by euill examples vnto extrauigant and dangerouse Courses Getting the Raines on theire neckes and departing from their parents some be- came souldiers others tooke vpon them farr voyages by sea and other some, worse Courses tending to desolutenes, and the danger of theire soules to the Great Greiffe of theire parents and dishonor of God soe that they saw theire posteritie would be in danger to degenerate and be Corrupted;
Lastly and which was not the 1 least a Great hope and Inward Zeal they had of laying some Good foundation or att least to make some way thervnto for " the propagateing; and advanceing the Gospell of the kingdom of Christ in those Remote p"tes of the world, yee, though they should be but as stepping stones vnto other, for prforming of soe Great a worke;
These and some other like Reasons moued them to vndertake this Resolution of their Removall the which they afterward proce- cuted with soe Great difficulties as by the sequell will appeer;
The place they had thoughts on were some of those vnpeopled Countryes of America which are fruitfull and fitt for habitation being devoid of all Civill ' Inhabitants, where ther are onely salvage and brutish people which Range vp and downe little otherwise then the wild beasts; this proposition being made publi[ck] and Comeing to the scaning of all it Raised many variable oppinions amongst men, and Caused many feares and doubts amongst themselues; some from theire Reasons and hopes Conceived; laboured to stir vp and Incurrage the Rest to vndertake and procecute the same; others againe out of theire feares objected against it; and sought to divert from it, alledging many thinges and those neither vnreasonable nor vnprobable; and that it was a Great designe and subject to many Inconceivable p'rells and dangers as besides the causaltie[s] of the seas (which none can be freed from) the length of the voyage was such as the weake bodyes of men and weomen and such other prsons worne out with age and travill (as many of them were) could neuer
1 Here the letters "las" are crossed out.
' Here a word is crossed out.
* Here "habitations" is crossed out.
1 1 1
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PLYMOUTH CHURCH RECORDS: VOLUME I, PART I
be able to Indure; and yett if they should; the miseryes of the land which they should be exposed vnto would be to hard to be bourn and likely some or all of them to Consume and vtterly to Ruinate them; for theire they should be 1 lyable to famine and Naked[nes] and the want in a Manor of all thinges; the Changing of the 2 aire diatt and drinking of water would Infect theire bodyes with sore sicknesses and all tho[se] which should escape or ouercome these diffi- culties should yett be in Contin[ual] danger of the salvage people whoe are Crewell & Barbarous and treach[erous] [13] being most furious in theire Rage and Mercyles where they ouercome not being Content onely to kill and take away life, but delight to torment men in most bloody Manor that may be; fflaying men alive with the shells of ffishes Cuting of the Joynts and members of others by peece meales; and broyling them on the Coles; and causing men to eate the Collopps of theire fflesh in theire sight whiles they liue; with other Creweltyes horible to be Related; and surely It could not be thought but the hearing of these thinges: could not but moue the bowells of men to Grate within them and mak the weak to qvak and tremble It was further objected that, it would Require Greater sumes of mony to furnish such a voiage; and to fitt them with Nesse- saries. then theire estates would amount to; and yett they must all as well look to be seconded with supplies, as prsently to be trans- ported; alsoe the like presedents of ill successe and lamentable Mis- eryes befallen others in the like ' designs were easey to be found and not forgotten: to be alledged, besides theire owne experience in theire former troubles and hardshipps in theire Removall into hol- land, and how hard a thinge it was for them to liue in that strange place although it was an Naighbour Country; and a Ciuill and Rich Comon wealth;
It was Answared that all Great and honorable Actions were ac- companied with Great difficulties; and must be both enterprised and ouercome with Answarable Currages, It was Granted the dangers were Great but not desparate, and the difficultie were many 5 but
1 Here "like" is crossed out.
" Here "hot" is crossed out.
' Here a word is crossed out.
. Here "Case" is crossed out.
' Here the words "the difficulties were" are crossed out.
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REMOVAL FROM HOLLAND DETERMINED UPON
Not Invincible, for although there were Many of them likely yett they were not Certaine; It might be that some of 1 the thinges feared might Neuer befall them. Others by prouidence Care and the vse of Good meanes might in a Great Measure be prevented; and all of them through the healp of God by fortitude and patience; 2 might& either be bourne or ouercome; true it was that such Attempts; were not to be made and vndertaken but vpon Good Ground and Reason, Not Rashly or lightly as many haue don for Curiossety or hope of Gaine &c: But theire Condition was Not ordinary theire ends were Good and honorable theire Calling lawfull and vrgent; and therefore they might expect a blessing of God in theire proceed- ing yee although they should loose theire liues in this action yett they might haue Comfort in the same; and theire Indeauors would be honorable.‘
They lived heer but as men in exile and in a poor Condition; and as Great Misseryes might posibly befall them, in this place, for the 12 yeers of truce were now out,5 and there was Nothing but beating of drums and preparing for warr, the euents whereof are alwaies vncertaine; the spainiard might proue as Crewell as the saluages of America; and the famine and pestilence as sore heer as theire and theire libertie lesse to look out for Remedy After; Many other prticular thinges answared and alledged on both sydes It was fully Concluded by the Major part to put this designe in execution and to procecute it by the best meanes they could.
The 5th Chapt: [s]hewing what [m]eanes they [used] for [prepa]ration to [this] [w]aithty voiage "
And first after theire humble prayers vnto God for his direction and Assistance And a Generall Conferrence held therabouts; they
1 Here a word is crossed out.
" Here the words "and all of them through the healp of God by fortitude and patience" are crossed out.
' An asterisk precedes this word, follows "honorable" at the end of this par- agraph, and precedes "They" at the beginning of the next paragraph.
" Here some words, apparently "theire Calling lawful and vrgent; and there- fore they might expect a blessing of God in their proceeding," are crossed out. " See p. 25 note 2, above.
" This heading is written in the margin.
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PLYMOUTH CHURCH RECORDS: VOLUME I, PART I
Consulted what prticular place to pitch vpon; and prepare for; some and none of the meanest had [14] had thoughts and were earnest for Goyanna or some of those fertile places in hott Clymetts others were for some prtes of Verginnia where the English had alreddy made enterance and begining, those for Goyanna alledged that the Country was Rich fruitfull and blessed with a ppetvall springe; and a fflorishing Greenes; wher vigorous Nature brought forth all thinges in aboundance and plentey without any Great Labour or art of man soe as it must Needs make the Inhabitants Rich, seeing lesse prouision of Clothing and other thinges would serue them then in more Colder and lesse fruitfull Countryes must be h[ad] as alsoe that the spainyards haueing much more then they Could, posesse had not yett planted there nor any where very Neare the same;
But to this it was Answared that out of question the Country was both fruitfull and pleasant and might yeild Riches and main- tenance to the posessors more esely then to1 other yett other thinges Considered it would not be soe fitt; and first that such hott Coun- tryes are subject to Greevious diseases and many Noysome Impedi- ments, which other more tempara[te] places are freer from and would Not soe well agree with our English bodyes; againe if they should there liue and doe well the Jealious spaniyard, would Neauer suffer them longe but would displant and ouerthrow them, as hee did the ffrench in florida whoe were settled further from his Richest Countryes; and the sooner because they should haue None to Pro- tect them and theire owne strength would be too smale to Resist soe Potent an enimie soe Neare an Naighbor,
On the other hand for Verginnia2 it was objected that if they lived amongst the English which were theire planted, or soe Near them as to be vnder theire Gou ment they should be in as Great danger to be troubled and prsecuted for theire Cause of Religion as if they liued in England (and it might be worse. and if they) liued to farr of, they should neither haue succor or defence from them;
And att length the Conclusion was to liue in a distinct body by themselues vnder the Gener[al] Gov ment of Verginnia; and by theire ffrinds to sue to his Mati. that hee would be pleased to Graunt
' Morton should have written "the."
' Altered from "Verginnias."
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CUSHMAN AND CARVER NEGOTIATE IN ENGLAND FOR PATENT 31
them free liberty, and ffredom of Religion; and that this May be obtained they were put in Good hope; by some Great p'sons of Good Rank and qval[ity] that were made theire ffrindes;
Whervpon two were Chosen and sent into England att the Charge of the Rest [to] sollissit this matter whoe 1 found the Verginnia Companie very desirous to haue them Goe thither, and willing to Graunt them a Pattent with as ample privilid[ges] as they had or could Graint to any, and to Giue them the best furtherance they C[ould] and some of the Cheiffe of the Company doubted Not to obtaine theire suite of the king for libertie in Religion and to haue it Confeirmed vnder the Kinges broad sea[l] according to theire desires but it proued a harder peece of work then they tooke it for; for although many meanes was vsed to bring it aboute yett it Could not be effe[cted] for there were diuers of Good worth laboured with the Kinge to obtaine it among[st] whom was one of his Cheife Secre- taries;2 and some other wrought with the arc[h] Bishop to Giue way thervnto, but it proued all in Vaine; yet thus farr, they prevaile[d] in sounding his Mates Mind, that hee would Conive att them, and Not molest them prouided they Carryed themselues peacably; But to allow or tollerate them by his publick authoritie vnder his seale, they found it would not bee; and this was all that the Cheefe of the verginnia Company or any other of theire best frinds Could do in the Case; yett they pswaded them to Goe on for they prsumed they should not bee troubled and with this answare the messengers Returned and signifyed what dilligen[ce] had bin vsed and to what Issue thinges were Come;
But this made a damp in the business and Caused som destrac- tion for many wer[e] affraid that if they should vnsettle themselues put offe their estates and Goe vpon the[se] hopes It might proue dangerous and but a sandy foundation; yee it was thou[ght] they might better haue presumed heervpon without makeing any suite att all th[en] haueing made it to be thus Rejected; but some of the Cheifest thought othe[rwise] [15] And that they might well pro- ceed heervpon and that the Kinges Mat. was willing enough to suffer them without molestation though for other Reasons hee
1 Here a word is crossed out. The two chosen were Robert Cushman and John Carver: cf. letter of Sandys, p. 32, below.
. Sir Robert Naunton.
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PLYMOUTH CHURCH RECORDS: VOLUME I, PART I
would not Confeirme it by any publick acte; and furthermore if there was Noe securitie in this promise Intimated there would be noe great Certainty in A further Confeirmation of the same for if afterward there should be a purpose or desire to wronge them though they had a seal as broad as the house flore It would not serue the turne for there would be means enough found to Recall or Reverse it; and seeing therfore the Course is probable they must Rest heerin on Gods Prouidence as they had don in other thinges;
vpon this Resolution other Messengers1 were dispatched to end with the virginia Companie as well as they Could and to procure a patent with as Good and ample Conditions as they might by any Good meanes Attaine as alsoe to treat and Conclude with such Marchants and other frinds as had manifested theire forwardnes to provoak to and adventure in this voyage for which end they had Instructions Giuen them vpon what Conditions they should pro- ceed with them or else to Conclude Nothing without furder advice; and heer it wilbe Reqvisite to Insert a letter or two that may Giue light to these proceedinges
A Coppy of a letter from Sir Edwin Sands directed to m" John Robinson and m" William Brewster
After my harty sallutations, The agents of youer Congregation Robert Cushman and John Caruer haue bin in Comunication with diuers Celect Gentlemen of his Mates Councell for Verginnia, and by the writing of seuen articles? with youer Names haue Giuen them that Good degree of Satisffaction; which hath Carryed them on with a Resolution to sett forward youer desire in the best sort that may be for youer own and the publick Good diuers p'ticulars wherof wee leaue to theire faithfull Report; haueing Carryed themselues heer with that Good descretion as is both to theire owne and theire Creditt from whence they Came; and whereas being to treat for a Multitude of people they haue Reqvested further time to Confer with them, that are to be Interrested in this action about the seuerall p'ticulars which in the prosecution therof will fall out Considerable; It hath bin very willingly assented vnto, and soe they doe Now Returne vnto you; if therfore it may please God soe to direct youer desires; as that on youer pites there fall out noe Just Im- pediments I trust by the same direction It shall likewise appeer that on
1 Robert Cushman and William Brewster: cf. p. 38, below.
' Morton has here omitted Bradford's " subscribed " (History, i. 72).
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REPLY OF ROBINSON AND BREWSTER TO SANDYS, 1617
our p'tes all forwardnes to sett you forward" shalbe found In the best sort, which with Reason May be expected; and soe I betake you with this designe, which I hope verily is the worke of God to the Gracious Protection and blesing of the highest.
Youer very Loueing ffrind EDWIN SANDS
London Nouember 12 1617
[16] Theire Answare was as followeth
RIGHT WORTEL
Our humble duties Remembered in our owne our messengers and our Churches name, with all thankfull acknowledgement of youer singular loue expressing it self as otherwise soe more especially in youer Great Care and earnest Indeauor of our Good, in this waighty business about Verginnia; which the lesse able wee are to Requite wee shall thinke our selues the more bound to Comend in our prayers vnto God for Recom- pence, whom as for the prsent you Rightly behould in our Indeauors soe shall wee not be wanting on our p'tes (the same God Assisting vs) to Returne all Answarable fruite and Respect vnto the labour of youer loue bestowed vpon vs wee haue with the best speed and Consideration withall; that wee Could sett down our Requests in writing subscribed (as you willed) with the Greatest p'te of our Congregation and haue sent the same vnto the Counsell by our agent' A deacon of our Church John Caruer vnto whom wee haue alsoe Requested a Gentleman of our Companie to adjoyne himself, to the Care and descretion of which two wee doe' Refer the prosecuting of the busines; Now wee p'swade our selues Right Worp" That wee need not to prouok youer Godly and loueing mind to any further or more tender Care of vs, since you haue pleased soe farr to Interest vs in youer self that vnder God aboue all přsons and thinges in the world wee Relye vpon you; expecting the Care of youer Loue Councell of youer wisdom and the healp and Countenance of youer Authoritie, Notwithstanding for youer Incurragment in the work soe farr as probabilleties may lead wee will not forbear to mension these Instances of Inducement;
1 Wee verily beleiue and trust the Lord is with vs vnto whom and whose service wee haue Giuen our selues in Many tryalls; and that hee
1 Altered from "forwards."
' Morton has here omitted Bradford's "hands of the" (History, i. 74).
' Altered from "agents."
Here a word is crossed out.
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PLYMOUTH CHURCH RECORDS: VOLUME I, PART I
will Graciously prosper our Indeauors according to the simplissety of our harts therin
2 Wee are well weaned from the dillicate milk of our mother Country and Invred to the difficulties of a strange and hard land which yett in Great p'te wee haue by patience ouercome;
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