USA > New York > Nassau County > Oyster Bay > A documentary history of het (the) Nederdeutsche gemeente, Dutch congregation, of Oyster Bay, Queens County, Island of Nassau, now Long Island, V. 9 > Part 12
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Proceedings on Monday the 9th of April, 1804.
Then Proceeded to the Electing of Officers, when the follow- ing Persons where Elected,
Elbert Hegeman, President. Roelof I. Schenck, V. President. Aaron V. Nostrand, Secretary. Joseph Hegeman, Treasurer. The Question was then brought forward,
Whether generosity is always commendable?
After some debate had thereon it was decided as follows, viz. Yeas. 3. Nays. 2.
Proceedings on Saturday the 6th of May, 1804.
A Motion was made and Seconded that the Treasurer lay out 36 Dollars for tickets in a Lottery or Lotteries for the Society and Passed unanimously, and further, Resolved that the Society meet the first Saturday in each Month.
Proceedings on Saturday the second of March ISO5:
Resolved that the money in the hands of the Treasurer be divided among the Society, and the six tickets, now in the hands
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of Joseph Hegeman and in Lottery No. 3 for the encouragement of literature, there to remain until said Lottery be drawn that Joseph Hegeman be authorized to receive whatever money said tickets may draw, in the above said Lottery, and make equal distribution, of the same, among James Hegeman, Rem B. Simonson, Joseph Hegeman, Elbert Hegeman, Aaron V. Nostrand, Jacob Crooker, Daniel Hegeman and George Monfoort, Jun.
Resolved further that although Harmony and Concord has prevail'd for upwards of four years among the society, we conceive it to be to our Interest to break off from our former compact for the purpose of uniting with A similar society in Woolverhollow.
Therefore, Resolved by this Society that our Constitution, By-Laws, Rules, and Regulations are no more binding on the members of this society and that the society is forever dissolved by mutual Consent.
At a Meeting held at the Cedarswamp Schoolhouse, 2d of March, 1805, by the Farmers Harmonizing Society agreeable to Constitution, Isaac Remsen, Jr. was made Chairman and Sec- retary, and Lieut. Elbert Hageman Treasurer.
A Question proposed by Capt. James Hume:
Can God be just in demanding that obedience from man which he has not in his power to give?
And with little or no opposition was decided in the affirmative, because it was argued that as man had incapacitated himself to obey God it did not deprive God of his demands, tho many of the Society seemed to express a silent Discontent however, the Question being put to a Vote it was carried by a majority, that God could be just in demanding that obedience from man which he has not in his power to give.
Proposed by James Hegeman, Esq.
What character is the most Useful the Economist or the Politician?
It was contended that the Politician was useful and necessary to make and regulate Laws for the preservation both of the life and Affects of the Economist, and after a few weak efforts of the
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oposite party it was left to vote and decided by a majority as follows:
For Politicians, 8. For Economists. 2.
The chairman leaving his Chair the meeting was Closed till Stock 12 Shillings.
next Thursday.
A meeting held Thursday March 7th, 1805 at the Dwelling House of Isaac Remsen, Jr. at Woolverhollow.
It was asked by James Hegeman, Esquire
Whether the use of Tobacco was of more advantage to Com- munity than disadvantage.
It was contended that there was an Advantage in many cases in using of Tobacco, Consequently it was of more advantage than disadvantage, but on the contrary it was oppos'd and contended that it was used oftener to disadvantage than to advantage and hence the Question was decided in the negative by a majority of 9 to 2 as follows:
For Disadvantage. 9. For Advantage. 2.
It was asked again by James Hegeman, Esq.
Which would perform the most service, two Horses fed plenty of good hay and corn or four Horses fed plenty of good hay only.
The Society divided their opinions after a considerable debate and manifold Reasonings the difference in the number of horses be so great even as 2 to four it was decided in the negative that four Horses fed as above might be of the most service and voted as follows
For 4 Horses, 6. For 2 Horses, 5.
It was asked the same evening by Esquire James Hegeman Which would be the most advantage to the farmer 200 bushels of Ashes spread on one acre of common land or on 2 acres of the same kind of land.
And after a very little Contest and with a degree of uncer- tainty it was decided by vote in the Negative as follows:
For I acre, Io. For 2 acres. 2.
Concluded till Thursday next. Stock 13 Shillings.
A meeting held at the dwelling house of Isaac Remsen, Wolverhollow, Thursday, March 14th, 1805.
The first question was proposed by Esq. Hegeman.
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Is the Government of the United States a Democratic Government or not.
It was contended in the negative that it was not a pure democracy but on the other part was answered that if it was not a pure democracy it might be democratic and decided by vote as follows:
For Democratic 10. Not for Democratic. 2.
Stock 13 shillings.
At a meeting held March 21st 1805 at the Dwelling House of Esquire James Hegaman Cedarswamp.
It was asked by Aaron Van Nostrand:
Which was the most pleasing, Anticipating pleasure or the present Enjoyment of pleasure?
And after a few Contentious sentiments of debate it was decided by vote as follows,
Anticipating, 5. Present Enjoyment. 4 ..
Then after Balloting in Jacob Mott as a member, he having been proposed according to Law the meeting was closed till next Thursday. Stock 13 Shillings.
At a meeting held at Wolverhollow March 28, 1805 at Capt. Rem B. Simonson's:
It was asked by Mr. John Mott.
Which bore the greatest Character, a great Statesman or a great General?
The House divided and after a considerable debate and reasons produced by both parties it was decided as follows by vote-
In favor of the States Man. 4. For the General. 5.
It was also ask'd by James Hegaman, Esq.
Whether there would be any advantage derived from discussing Religious Questions in the Society.
And after Something said on the Subject was decided by vote Unanimously in the Negative that there would be no advantage in discussing Religious Questions in the Society.
They being generally of too great importance and of too solemn a Nature which carried them far above the proceedings of our Society in Discussing of them.
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It was asked the same evening by Aron V. Nostrand Whether the Slave trade from Africa had been of more advantage than disadvantage?
After a considerable Debate was left to Vote and carried by a Majority in the Negative as follows, viz:
For advantage, 4. For Disadvantage. 5.
Cost for paper, I Shilling. Stock 12 Shillings.
At a meeting held April 4th, 1805 at the Dwelling House of Samuel Mott, Wolverhollow,
It was asked how a man gained the greatest Vice by Nature or Education:
And after a considerable debate was decided as follows:
For Nature, 2 For Education, 7.
It was resolved that Members of Similar Societies to ours should have Liberty to speak and Discuss Questions in our meeting, the same as members of our society, but are not ad- mitted to Vote or ballot.
Stock 13 shillings, being increased by admitting a new Member.
At a meeting held at Cedarswamp April 12th, 1805, at the House of Lieut Elbert Hegeman
It was asked by Isaac Remsen Jr. Whether Industry or Frugallity had the greatest tendency to Wealth. And after a few Sentences of Debate, It was unamously agreed that it was Manifest that industry had the greatest tendancy to in- crease Wealth.
It was then asked by Esqr. James Hegeman.
Which was the most Laudable persuit Industry or Frugality.
And after a few Contentious Sentiments past by both parties, It was decided by Vote as follows.
For frugallity. 4 for Industry. 3.
Stock 13 shillings.
At a meeting held at the dwelling house of George Monforts, Wolverhollow April the 18th, 1805.
The Question being asked by Elbert Hegeman, Lieut.
Whether it was more difficult to become a great General or a great Statesman. The house divided and the party for the
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side of the Statesman decently Reasoned the Statesman's duty was greater and more frequently than the Generals, he having always business to attend to either in War or peace and the General had little or nothing to do in time of peace, but the other party considering well that a man must have something to do in order to make himself great, contended that as the statesman had always business on hand in which to exercise his Tallents and make himself great and that the General had not so frequently those opportunities of making himself great, that it was a greater difficulty to become a great General than a great Statesman, the sense of the Society being taken Voted as follows
Statesman, 3 General, 5
Stock 14 Shillings, being increased by admitting a new mem- ber.
At a Meeting held May 2nd, 1805 at the dwelling of Capt. Rem B. Simonson's
It was asked by James Remsen, Jr.
"Whether the Orator or the Reasoner had the preference in Society."
The house being much divided in their opinions about it and both parties strongly contended for their own opinion by acutely reasoning and Sagaciously Contending till at length it being put to vote and decided as follows:
For the Orator: 4. For the Reasoner. 4.
The house being equally divided the Chairman decided it by a Vote in favor of the Reasoner.
Stock 18/6 being increased by Quarterly Payment.
At a meeting held Norwich July 4th, 1805 at the house of Mott & Hegeman:
It was interrogated by Esq. James Hegeman Whether it was good Policy in the Legislature to grant a Charter and in- corporate the Merchants Bank.
But the Question was not Discussed, the Society Adjourn'd to Celebrate the Day.
Stock 18/6.
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At a meeting at Wolverhollow Nov. 21st, 1805 at the house of Isaac Remsen.
The Question for Discussion was "Whether it was good Policy in the Legislature to grant a Charter and Incorporate the Merchants Bank "
There was very little difference in sentiment of Opinions in the Society regarding the Question hence the Question being put the House voted unanimous in favor of not good policy.
It was likewise contended Whether it was most advantage to raise Horses or Cattle: and after a considerable debate it was decided by vote as follows,
For Horses: 4
For Cattle: 2 Stock 18/6.
At a Meeting at Wolverhollow Dec. 18th, 1805 at the house of Rem B. Simonson.
The question for discussion was as follows, viz: "Whether it was the most profit to keep or raise Swine or Sheep."
The house divided and after a considerable debate it was decided in favor of Sheep as follows:
For Swine 2 For Sheep. 6.
The Second Question was Whether the trade to India was any benefit to the United States or not? And after a consider- able debate on the Subject was decided in the negative by vote.
For no benefit, 5 For benefit, 2 Stock 18/6.
At a Meeting held January 21st 1806 at the house of John Remsen, Wolverhollow.
1 It was ask'd Whether the self same human body would be rais'd again that had once seen corruption. And after many observations made on the Question without any opposition it was unanimously decided in the affirmative.
Again, It was asked whether it would be an advantage or a disadvantage to the United States of America in general to manufacture their own cloths.
The house being of various opinions disputed the Question considerable, but concluded unanimously that it was most advantageous for the Americans to manufactor their own coarse cloths but not their fine as at present.
Stock 18/6.
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At a meeting at the house of Samuel Mott at Wolver Hollow on Monday the 21st December, 1807 for the purpose of organ- izing A Society and James Hegeman, Esq. being unanimously called to the Chair and the House Proceeded to Business, Resolved unanimously that we adopt the Constitution formerly adopted at Cedarswamp January 12th, 1807 as it now stands as a Con- stitution for this Society and for the fullfilment thereof we do. hereunto subscribe our names:
James Hegeman John Nostrand
Samuel Sherman
Jacob Mott Tunis Hoagland John Monfoort
Rem B. Simonson
Aaron V. Nostrand William Weeks
Henry Monfoort Mouris Simonson William Crooker
James McQueen
Titus & Hegeman Jacob Laton
Samuel Titus George Monfoort, Jr. Isaac R. Remsen
George W. Dodge Thomas Jackson
Previous to an ajournment of the aforesaid Meeting the following persons were duly elected to office and to stand until. the general meeting.
James Hegeman, President; Aron Van Nostrand, Vice Presi- dent; Rem B. Simonson, Treasurer; Jacob Mott, Secretary.
At a Meeting at the House of Samuel Mott, Wolver Hollow monday December 24th, 1807.
The Question was, which will Carry a man to the greatest length Riches or honour, the House divided and after A debate on the same Was carryed in favour of riches in the following manner :
For Riches 6 . For Honour. 3.
The Second Question was, which requires the most prudence the art of getting money or saving it, the House divided and after a Considerable debate thereon was carryed in favor of getting in following manner.
For getting, 5. for Saving. 4
A motion was then made that A Committee be appointed to frame or revise Certain by laws for this society and that Samuel Sherman & Jacob Mott be that Committee, carryed unanimous. The meeting then adjourn'd unto the School house at Tappin town Monday 4th January and that Jacob Mott procure firewood, paper, Candles, and one gallon of Cyder for the same.
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At a meeting held at the School House Tappin Town January 4th 1808 agreeable to adjournment the Committee appointed to draft certain by-laws made their reports and the same were unanimously adopted as the by-Laws of this society.
A Question was as follows
Does Theatrical performances have A good or an evil tend- ency and after some debate on the same was carryed, that it would have more of an evil than good, unanimously.
The Second Question was Hath the invention of Fire arms been of more advantage than disadvantage to Mankind or not, and after some debate on the same, was Carryed in the negative in manner following:
Advantage 2
Disadvantage. 7
A motion was then made for a half gallon of Sperrits and two pounds of Sugar at the next general Meeting and carryed in favour.
At a meeting at the school House at Tappin Town Jan. 11th I SoS agreeable to adjournment
The House after being called to order proceeded to the choice of officers in the manner prescrib'd by the constitution, it being the first general Meeting, and after A motion being made and seconded that James Hegeman Esq. do canvas the vote he proceeded to do the same and it appeared by said vote that Isaac R. Remsen is Elected President; Aron Van Nostrand Vice President;
Samuel Sherman Secretary; Rem B. Simonson Treasurer.
The new President then taking the Chair the following Ques- tion was proposed for Discussion:
Does the Earth produce herbs or plants without seed or not, and after a Lengthy Debate on the same was carryed in the affirmative in manner following:
Affirmative: 6
Negative: 1
A motion was then made and seconded for the President to draw an order on the treasurer for paying certain debts of the Society and Caryed in the affirmative the meeting then passed a resolve that this society do meet on Monday in each Week successively and then adjourn'd accordingly.
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At a meeting at the School House Tappin Town Monday Evening January 17th 1808, A Question was Introduced, whether Medicine or Temperance was the most conducive to health, after a lengthy Debate on the Subject it was Carried that Temperance was the most Conducive to Health in the following manner:
For Temperance 6 For Medicine. 3
The Second Question Proposed for Discusion in this meeting was, which operates the Strongest on mankind, Ambition or the Love of Women. After Considerable Debate on the Ques- tion it was carri'd in favor of the Love of Women.
For the Love of women, 6. For Ambition. 3 It was then reported by a member that James McQueen Desired to become a Member of this Society.
At a meeting at the School House Tappen Town, January 25th, 1808.
James McQueen who was Proposed as member at the Last meeting was Excepted as Such. A Question was then Intro- duced, whether Bank Notes or Paper medium was an advantage or Disadvantage to the Public, after Some Debate on the Question, it was Carried that Bank Notes or Paper medium was the most advantage, unanimously.
The Second Question was, which kind of grain is the most Profit for the farmer to Raise or Cultivate in the County of Queens, wheat or barley, after a Lengthy Debate on the Subject it was unanimously Carried in favour of the Cultivation of wheat.
Jacob Laton, John Nostrand and Samuel Titus are Proposed as desirous of becoming members of this Society.
At a meeting at the School House, Tappen Town February Ist, 1808. The three Persons who were Proposed at the Last meeting were unanimously Excepted as members of this Society. A Question was, whether Spiritous, Liquors hath been of more advantage than Disadvantage to mankind. After some Debate on the Subject it was Carried that Spiritous Liquors is a Dis- advantage to mankind in the following manner:
against Spiritous Liquors: 11. In favor. 3.
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The Second Question was-Is the borrowing of money when we know we are unable to Pay, as Bad a Crime as Forgery or not. After some Debate on the Same, it was Carried that forgery was the worst Crime, in manner following:
For Forgery 13 For Borrowing I
William Weekes, Tunis Hoagland and William Crooker are Proposed as Desirous of becoming members of this Society.
Previous to an adjournment, on motion of James Hegeman, Esq., it was unanimously Resolved as the oppinion of this meeting that it will be useful to Read or Deliver from Memory a Short Passage Selected from any author or of our own Com- posure before this Society. Provided the Same Shall be decent.
Resolved, Further-that every member in his turn under the Regulation of the President, Shall be Permitted to Read or Deliver from memory a Short Pasage Selected from any author or of his own Composure at any time after the Discussion and Decision of one Question has taken Place or at such other time :as the Society may from time to time think Proper.
At a meeting at the School House Tappen Town on February 8th, 1808 Aaron V. Nostrand was appointed to Canvas the votes by which it appeared that William Weekes, Tunis Hoag- land and William Crooker were Unanimously excepted as mem- bers of this Society-the first Question admitted for Discussion this evening was, which is the most useful, Land or Water Carriage. After Some Debate on the Question, it was Carried in favour of Land Carriage.
For Land Carriage 9 For Water Carriage. S.
The Second Question was-Did Columbus benefit the human Race by the discovery of America or not? After a Lengthy debate on the Subject it was Unanimously Carri'd that Columbus Benefited the human Race by the Discovery of America.
At a meeting at the School House Tappen Town February 15th, 1808, the President being absent, the Vice President taking the Chair after which the Question was Introduced, whether Flesh or fish was the most wholesome diet taken in
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its variety. After Considerable Contention on the Question it was Decided in favour of flesh in the following manner.
For flesh 8 for Fish 7
The Second Question, this evening was: Which is the happiest, the master or the apprentice? After a Lengthy Debate on the Subject it was Decided in favour of the apprentice in the fol- lowing manner:
for the master, 4 for the apprentice : II
At a Meeting at the School House at Tappen Town February the 22nd 1808. the Secretary being absent Aaron V. Nostrand was chosen Secretary for the Evening after which the Question was Introduced-Which are the most useful, the Learned or the Mechanics. After a considerable debate it was decided as follows:
For the Mechanicks: 13 For Learned: I
The Second Question was read: Which is used to the greatest Excess Distilled Liquors or Tobacco: After a considerable Debate it was decided as follows:
Distilled Spirits: 1I
Tobacco: 3
At a Meeting at the School House at Tappen Town, February 29th, 1808, the following Question was laid before the Society: Which is the greatest character Columbus or Franklin? After Considerable Debate on the Question a motion was made to Defer the decision of the above Question til Next meeting which was agreed to:
The Second Question admitted, hath the India trade been of more advantage then Disadvantage to America. After some Debate it was Decided against India Trade
For India Trade, 3 against India Trade. 10.
At a meeting at the School house, Tappen Town March 7, 1808, The following Question was read for discussion:
Which was the greatest character Columbus or Franklin: after a considerable debate on the same was decided in favour of Franklin unanimous.
The Second Question Read was, are the operation of Love strongest on the Male or Female Sex and after being for
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some time debated was decided in favour of the Male in manner following:
for the Male Io.
for the female: 3.
At a meeting at the School house Tappen Town March 1;th 1808. The following Question was Read:
Which is the most happy the Civilized Man or the Savage:
After Considerable Debate Was Decided as follows:
Civalized, 5. Savage: 3.
The Second Question Read, Is it right to force A Man to that which is for his own Good or Not:
Not right to force him, 6 Right to force him 3.
At a meeting at the School house Tappen Town March the 2Ist, 1808 the following Question was Read for Discussion:
Which is the most happy, the officer or the soldier.
After considerable debate was decided as follows:
For the Officer 5. for the Soldier 5.
There being an Equality of Votes as Appears the President Gave the Casting Vote In favour of the Officer.
After an Adjournment of 5 Minutes the following Question Was Introduced, Which is the most sought after Wealth or Knowledge? After some Debate was decided as follows:
for Wealth 7 for Knowledge: 3
At a meeting at the School House on March 28th 1808, the following Question was Introduced; Which makes the greatest figure in the world, Politeness or Dress. After some Debate it was Decided in favor of Dress in the following manner:
For Dress: 4 For Politeness: 3
After an adjournment of Five minutes a Question was ad- mitted to the following import, which has the greatest influence on man, Wealth or talents. After considerable Debate on the Question it Decided in favor of wealth in manner following: For Wealth, 4 For Tallents. 3.
A motion was then made to appoint a Committee to make the necessary arrangements for the General meeting which was agreed to, and Isaac R. Remsen and Henry Monfoort are ap-
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pointed for that purpose in case a House should not be made out at the meeting preceeding the General Meeting.
At a Meeting at the School House Tappen Town April 4th, 1808 The following Question was Discussed: Which ought to be esteemed the most, the Industrious or the Skilfull? After a Lengthy Debate it was Decided in favor of Skill in manner following:
In favor of Skill 6 In favor of Industry. 3.
The present meeting being Large a motion was made and carried that the old Committee be Done away and a New Com- mittee appointed to make the necessary arrangements for the ensuing General meeting, Elbert Hegeman and Jacob Titus are therefore appointed a Committee to Procure three Quarts of Rum, 2 lb. sugar and 2 shillings worth of Eggs for that Purpose.
At a Meeting at the School House Tappen Town on April 18th 1808 The Secretary being absent William Crooker was ap- pointed to officiate. The following Question was then Intro- duced.
Which is the most pleasant, a city or a country life. After considerable debate was decided as follows:
For City Life, 2
For Country Life 4
Agreeable to a vote taken by the society an oration was delivered the Society, then adjourned.
At a meeting at the School House in Cedarswamp 30th November, 1811 for the purpose of forming a Society, Mr. George Monfort in the Chair. Resolved that we the Subscribers do hereby form ourselves into a Society under the Constitution adopted at this place 12th January 1801. We do likewise adopt the bye-laws as they now stand amended in pursu- ance of the abovesaid constitution. Provided however that we reserve the right to appoint a committee to revise and alter said bye-laws as a majority of the Society may think proper. George Monfoort John Monfoort Joseph Hegeman
James Hegeman Edward Youngs An. Simonson Micajah Townsend Geo. D. Coles Adrian Luister
Jeromus V. Nostrand Thomas Underhill
Aaron V. Nostrand
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George Luister Stephen W. Titus William Crooker
J. V. D. B. Hegeman Andrew McQueen Thos. M. Weeks
Leonard Frost.
Resolved unanimously that the Society meet on the 14th December next for the purpose of choosing officers and to proceed to business.
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