USA > Ohio > Twenty-five years in the West > Part 8
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Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6 | Part 7 | Part 8 | Part 9 | Part 10 | Part 11 | Part 12 | Part 13 | Part 14 | Part 15 | Part 16 | Part 17 | Part 18 | Part 19 | Part 20 | Part 21 | Part 22 | Part 23 | Part 24 | Part 25 | Part 26 | Part 27 | Part 28
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earthly ruler be justly deemed a fool or a tyrant, if, in publishing laws he should be silent concerning the full penalty ? Is man wiser than God? Does the wis- dom of earth exceed that of heaven ? For the forty centuries before Christ, was a vast stream of human beings plunging headlong into a bottomless pit, and not a warning given of their impending fate, till they heard the stunning roar of the infer- nal cataract ? This is affirmed by many learned divines. They admit the Old Testament does not teach eternal punishment, but at the same time contend, that from Adam to Christ, the penalty for transgression was eter- nal punishment, and consequently all nations and peo- ple were, during that time exposed to that terrible storm of wrath." Away with such blasphemous imputations. Wisdom, goodness, justice, assure us, that the great Law- giver kept nought back of sin's penalty, but revealed the truth, and at the time he gave the law. And here it is in such plain language that a child can understand it. I will read from Deuteronomy xxviii :
" It shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and statutes which I command thee this day, that all these curses shall come upon thee, and over- take thee : Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy cattle, and the flocks of thy sheep. Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out. The Lord shall send upon thee cursing, vexation and rebuke in all that thou settest thine hand unto to do. . . . He shall smite thee with consumption, and with
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a fever, with blasting and mildew; and the Lord shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he shalt have consumed thee from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. Moreover, all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenest not unto the voice of the Lord thy God to keep his commandments and his statutes, which he com- manded thee. Because thou servedst not the Lord thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things, therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the Lord shall send against thee, in hun- ger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things. And thine enemy shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls shall come down, wherein thou trustedest. Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shalt go into captivity. And thou shalt become an astonish- ment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whith- er the Lord shall lead thee."
This language cannot be misunderstood. No lawgiv- er ever stated the penalty for transgression in plainer terms. The Jews, if they sinned, were to suffer in body and mind, in head and heart, at home and abroad, till they were consumed from the land. But beyond the land there is not an intimation that endless woe would be their doom. That the apostle Paul understood the conse- quences of sin to be temporary, is evident from these words : " For if the words spoken by angels was stead- fast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward; how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation ? " Heb. ii 23. The apos- tle here speaks of past wickedness, and says it HAD RE- CEIVED A JUST RECOMPENSE OF REWARD, consequently
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the countless millions of the dead were not TO BE re- ceiving it through the ceaseless ages of eternity. They had received a just recompense of reward, and were at rest. All the moral elements of the law are as much in force to-day as when revealed to Moses, and the penalty is the same now as then. Let this be remembered. Good men are blessed now, and wicked men are cursed note. Goodness blesses the one, and vice curses the other. It is as true now of all who have lived, as it was in St. Paul's day and generation, that they have received a just recompense of reward. The Old Testament, from be- ginning to end, reiterates the same lesson concerning the present blasting effect of vice in all its varied forms.
Mr. Taylor, in reply, admitted the Old Testament teaches that the wicked in part are punished in this world, that they have a foretaste of hell this side of the grave, a morsel of what is in reservation for them beyond the tomb. He also admitted, Moses did not teach end- less punishment, but the prophets did teach it, though not in as clear language as did Christ and the apostles. A future life was only partially revealed during the Law Dispensation ; it was reserved for the Son of God to fully bring life and immortality to light. So of hell; it was obscurely revealed by the prophets, but clearly re- vealed by the Savior of man.
I rejoined thus: "Hell obscurely revealed by the prophets !" And yet, Mr. Taylor tells us, that from Adam to Christ, multitudes were daily dropping into the infernal regions. Hell should have been revealed more distinctly than death or the grave, for it might have been shunned if timely warning had been given. Only think of a God of love and wisdom imparting existence to human beings, knowing, that by day and by night, from
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the cradle to the grave, they were in imminent danger of falling into a fathomless gulf, there ever to writhe in immortal agonies, and yet only OBSCURELY HINT to them their danger. What kind of a God, sir, do you worship? But then heaven, he says, was only obscurely revealed under the law. I am amazed that a good, intelligent and learned, man should deceive himself by such soph- istry. It may be consistent for a parent in his last will and testament to withhold knowledge of a great good for a given period from his children, but he must be a mon- ster to withhold for a moment knowledge of an impend- ing cvil, especially if he knows they may escape it by timely warning.
It was nearly midnight when the discussion closed, and I spent the rest of the night, by his request, at his house. The next morning he prayed I might be converted to the knowledge of the truth, and then pro- posed a public discussion at Frankfort. The proposi- tions were agreed on, but the time was not specified, and I never could induce him to name the date for the debate to commence. He put me off from time to time, and finally the matter was dropped.
About this time, I had a discussion in Independence, Ind., with Mr. Campbell, a Methodist minister, which was my first regular oral debate. Had often had skirm- ishes, but this was my first regular pitched battle, and I went into it with much fear and trembling. I had con- fidence in the truth, but feared I should fail in defending it. And to this day, I never commence a discussion without similar fears ; but when I get warmed up, and have the measure of my man, I feel tolerably bold. The subject of discussion was endless punishment. Mr. Campbell was a Scotchman, and pretty wiry. The dis-
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cussion elicited much interest, and large assemblies listened to it. The following is the substance of one of my speeches :
The consequences of iniquity were revealed to our first parents in the following words : " And the Lord God took the man, and put him in the garden of Eden to dress it, and to keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou may- est freely eat, but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen. ii. 15-17. Here is the first commandment, and its penalty; and we may expect that a wise, just and merciful God would inform our race in its very infancy of the whole results of wickedness. If eternal woe is the penalty, it should have been then and there, at the very gate of Eden, proclaimed in distinct and unmistakable language. The welfare of man, in time and in eternity, required this. If man's everlasting weal or woe depends on his choos- ing evil or good in this world, that tremendous fact should have been announced in such thundering tones, that its echo would reverberate down all the succeeding ages, through every valley, across every plain, over every mountain, so that all the living, yea, the dead, should hear. If belief in endless woe is the conservative of virtue, and the denial of it infidelity, that dogma should have been proclaimed so loud and so distinct, it should have been so stamped on every heart, that a blazing hell and terrible devils, would have been the first thought of childhood, and not to be forgotten till the eyes were closed in death, and the heart ceased to beat.
But what saith the passage ? " In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Is that all the penalty?
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Every word of it. Not a syllable about endless death, endless misery, endless hell. Mr. Campbell, who author- ized you to put endless before death ? You add to the Word, and you know what is said of those who do that wicked thing. The punishment was that they should die. The Bible speaks of national death, temporal death, death to sin, and death in sin. But here it cannot mean national death, or death to sin; neither can it mean temporal death, for Adam lived hundreds of years after he sinned. Reference, without doubt, is to death in sin, moral death - death to purity, innocence, virtue, happi- ness, which is symbolized by his being driven out of the garden. We were all in that garden once. Jesus took little children in his arms and blessed them, saying, " Of such is the kingdom of heaven." But Adam was cast out, and most of us share the same fate. Adam, in Eden. represents our childhood, out of it, our sinful state. This death in sin, which Adam suffered, and multitudes of others suffer, is often spoken of in the Bible. Said Jesus, " Let the dead bury the dead; " that is, let the dead in sin bury the temporal dead. "You hath he quickened who were dead in tresspasses and sin.
Even when we were dead in sin hath he quickened us together with Christ." Eph. ii. 1, 5. This moral death means a great deal. It includes sin itself, and all its sad results - degradation, debasement, condemnation, dark- ness, hell, and ultimates often in temporal ruin. This soul-debasement results in jails, penitentiaries and gal- lows; in slavery, war and tyranny ; in premature graves, desolated cities, and ruined nations.
But where and when was the penalty to be inflicted ? Mark the words: "IN THE DAY thou eatest thereof thou . shalt surely die." Sin and its penalty are bound -
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chained together. It does not read they would not be punished till the judgment day thousands of years hence,. at the end of time. That is Mr. Campbell's theory ; but the truth is, sin and punishment go hand in hand, at all: times, and in all places; and if he can prove eternal. sinning, I will admit eternal suffering. Notice also, that the punishment was sure. In the day thou sinneth thou shalt surely die. If you jump into the sea, and cannot swim, you must suffer the consequences ; if you swallow a dose of poison, and it penetrates your vitals, you must: abide the result; so, he who transgresses the moral law of God, must suffer its blasting, damning effects. "Ye. shall surely die." The curse cleaves to the sinner till there is an entire transformation of character. But the penalty is not endless, else who can be saved? It was not termed endless when it was first revealed, neither is. it called endless in any part of the Bible. The gentle .. man will have to hunt up evidence outside of the Book. to make out endless woe for the sins of this life.
Mr. Campbell replied : "The death threatened Adam, was death temporal, death spiritual, and death eternal; and although it is not termed eternal in the passage, it is: clearly implied there, and distinctly taught all through the Bible."
I answered: Here are two assumptions. I. That the death was threefold. There is no such intimation in the passage or elsewhere in the Bible. 2. That the death is. eternal. It is not so termed from Genesis to Revelation.
But I have not room for more of that discussion. Mr. Campbell seemed satisfied with his defense of ceaseless; woe, and we parted in friendship.
I got along better with this discussion than I expected, and was more willing afterwards to engage in such
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debates. Many well meaning persons oppose religious discussion ; they think it does no good, but much harm ; but they do not properly discriminate between the abusc and proper use of discussion. That it may be, and often is abused, is not doubted. But what good thing can be named, that is not liable to the same objection ? Why, even the best of God's blessings, can be converted into the greatest of evils. Fire, water, air, steam, electricity, when legitimately employed, are immense benefactors to man, but when illegitimately employed, deal death and destruction all around. Man, when answering the end of his being, is almost an angel, but when his noble faculties are prostituted to base purposes, he becomes a fiend. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to all who cherish it deep in their hearts, but in the hands of wicked men it may deluge the world with blood and tears. So, religious discussion, where truth and error grapple, if conducted with proper motives, and in the right spirit, is a lever of reform. It opens the eyes of the blind, unstops the ears of the deaf, and often takes away the heart of stone and gives a heart of flesh. Hence reformers in all ages have courted discussion. Socrates was a famous debater. Jesus traveled from town to town, and Paul from nation to nation, discussing with the people, and turning the world upside down. Luther, by his controversial tongue and pen, sent the Pope of Rome and Catholic Church, headlong to the gates of their long home. After that tongue was silent, and that pen dry, they rallied and prolonged their exist- ence. Let every subject of human thought be discussed freely, but kindly, honestly, wisely. It will do no harm, but much good. But I have observed that it is the advocates of established theories, exclusively, who oppose
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discussion. They do not want their slumbers disturbed by noisy debate. They might wake up and see and hear something new. Cry aloud, reformers; do not be afraid of making a noise in the sleepy hollows of the earth. Say to all, Awake, think, investigate, judge. The divine injunction is, " Prove all things; hold fast that which is, good ; " "Come, let us reason together."
There was so much opposition to liberal principles, the people wanted doctrinal and explanatory discourses, but I always dwelt more or less on the moral and the spiritual. Doctrinal and explanatory discourses, without showing the moral and spiritual bearing of truth, do but little good. In almost every place I went, the preachers were fighting our faith, and slandering its advocates, and our friends wanted me to repel these assaults, which gave my sermons a controversial character, and some times a peppery flavor. But I always kept the great truth prom- inent in my. ministrations, that heaven and everlasting life may be enjoyed in this world ; that we should lay hold on them; lay up treasures where moth and rust cannot corrupt, and where thieves cannot break through and steal. And I had the satisfaction of knowing that not only many minds were enlightened by truth divine, but many hearts were improved by its saving influence.
And here I am reminded of an outrageous attack of a Methodist preacher, Mr. Cooper, on our people in Independence. " They are," said he, "the vilest of the vile. The jails, penitentiaries, rum holes, gambling dens, are full of them. They defy heaven and blaspheme God. This is their general character."
I replied : this is all slander, and this lying priest knows it. He knows he bears false witness against his acquaintance, his neighbors, the citizens of this place
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He sins willfully, maliciously, and had better not let the sun go down on his wrath. All who live in this com- munity know he poured out this day vials of falsehood; they know that some of the best citizens of this county are of the faith he condemns; they know that the wicked places he speaks of in this community, are not filled with persons of our faith. He cannot name a grog-shop keeper in this county, who professes to be a Universalist ; but I can name a dozen advocates of eternal punish- ment, and some of them members of his church, who are in that kind of business; and for every gambler here, who ever thought of calling himself a Universalist, I can name ten who will swear over their cards and bot- tles, there is an endless hell; and for every Universalist he may produce, who uses profane language, I can pro- duce ten advocates of eternal punishment, who blas- pheme God and heaven daily by their profanity. I want no better evidence of the immoral tendency of Partialism than the speaker has given to-day; and I am sure that publicans and sinners will enter the kingdom of heaven before characters of his stamp. I do not pretend, that all calling themselves by our name are Christians in life and practice. Are all the believers in immortal woe, Christians? History says, no ; every man and woman living on earth will say, no. The persecutors and murderers of Christ and his apostles; those who pursued the Christians in the first and second centuries of the Christian Era, with fire and sword, were zealous advocates of eternal burnings. The Catholics who tor- tured, hung, beheaded, quartered, millions of Christians and Pagans, were all staunch believers in hell. Presby- terians, Episcopalians, Puritans, and Independents, who hung Quakers and Catholics, burned witches, and per-
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secuted and murdered each other, were all unwavering in the fiery faith. Ninety-nine one hundredths of all the thieves, murderers, pirates, gamblers, rum-sellers, rum-drinkers, are believers in eternal woe. These are facts which history and observation substantiate. If Universalism had been believed, and preached as long and as generally as eternal punishment has been, and if mankind were no better than they now are, I, for one, would be ashamed to boast of its heavenly influence. I do not say that all the advocates of eternal punishment are reprobates. There are noble and pure Christians in / all denominations, many of them, more of that character than otherwise, but faith in hell has yet the first Chris- tian to make. Believers in that cruel dogma, many of them, are Christians in spite of their faith. The ten- dency of belief in hell is downward, while the innate goodness of their hearts, and the many truths they cherish, direct them heavenward. I do not contend that all the believers in the Restitution are practical Chris- tians. Would to God they were, but I know they are not. But give this divine philosophy time to do its work in the world; give it time to germinate, root, bud, blos- som, and yield its fruit, before you condemn it. Belief in vengeance has had ample time to develope itself in human character, and it has produced its like the world over. Give the doctrine of LOVE and JUSTICE an opportunity to yield its legitimate fruit before you cast it out as evil. Besides, the immoral men who hang at our skirts, were cradled, educated, and grew to manhood, not under the influence of our benevolent faith, but under the guns of Orthodoxy, and it, if any creed, is responsible for their character. But because Univer- salism does not do in a day what Orthodoxy has failed
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to do in years, it is said to be immoral in its tendency !
About this time, I had a discussion in a grove near Burlington, Ind., with Harper Hanna, a Methodist min- ister, which continued four days. I had not been in the neighborhood before the discussion commenced, neither had a discourse on the Restitution been deliv- ered there, consequently the people were ignorant of our faith, and strongly prejudiced against it. On the other hand, Mr. Hanna was in the midst of his friends and had the prejudices of the community in his favor. It was a daring thing to debate under such circumstances, but I went through with it, and had the satisfaction of know- ing I did not labor in vain. Had afterwards monthly appointments in the neighborhood. It was amusing tu see the people scan me, watch every motion. Had I been an elephant I would not have been the subject of more curiosity. The themes of discussion were Endless Punishment and Universal Salvation. In my first speech I said :
Confine a man in prison one year-that is a severe penalty. Keep him there ten years-that is an awful infliction. Keep him there his whole natural lifetime - that is dreadful beyond description. But what is one year, what are ten years, yea, seventy years of imprison- ment, to endless suffering in hell? Let all the suffering of head and heart, soul and body, that all mankind have endured in all ages, and all climes, be combined in one pang, and that one pang would not amount to as much woe as one soul will suffer if doomed to endure ceaseless misery. The fires in which the damned will live and move, will be in full blast when this earth shall be gray with age, when the flames of the mid-day sun shall flick- er like the dying taper in its socket, yea, they will contin-
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ue to burn deep into the souls of countless millions while heaven shall stand and God exist. That is endless mis- ery ; and that is what Mr. Hanna affirms, and is trying to prove will be the doom of a large part of mankind. It is a dreadful work to charge the God of heaven with doing. It is blasphemy to stand up in this beautiful world, amid the manifestations of God's love, and charge the Author of all these blessings, with inflicting an eter- nity of woe on worms of the dust. I believe in punish- ment -in righteous, just punishment - but I do not, dare not, believe, that the Father of all mercies, whose name and nature is love, will, for the sins of a day, doom innumerable multitudes of his offspring to blow the fires of hell forever.
At the close of the debate he adopted a little expedi- ent he was sure would be a perfect success-to him. He wanted the assembly to decide by vote, which party had triumphed in the discussion. Being in the midst of his friends, and relying on the prejudices of the people, he doubted not that an overwhelming majority would crown him victor. I was of the same opinion for the same reasons, hence opposed his crafty manœuvre. But being determined the assembly should vote he was the the hero of the day, he requested all to rise who thought Harper Hanna had sustained his propositions. About one fourth of the congregation heeded his call. He looked the picture of amazement at so few voting he was the conqueror. "Get up, " said he, "you misunderstand me; " and he again called on all to rise, who thought Harper Hanna had sustained his cause. Not another was added to his voting friends. Finding he could drum up no more, he requested all to stand up, who thought Mr. Manford had proved that Universalism was the gos-
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pel. Two thirds of the assembly bounded to their feet. Poor Hanna turned pale as death, and uttering not a word, sunk into his chair.
Returning to Lafayette, I rode in company with a man who had heard of the debate, but did not know me.
Stranger. "There has been a discussion in Burling- ton on Universalism."
M. " Did you attend ? "
S. " No; it is wrong to hold such discussions. Uni- versalism is a lie, and every Christian should call it a lie, and have nothing to do with it, or its advocates. It is the devil who induces Christians to debate with Univer- salists. It is one of his schemes to lead souls down to hell. Several of my neighbors came home from the dis- cussion, advocating that wicked doctrine. They were Christians, but I fear they are ruined. Two of them say they shall withdraw from our church. Mr. Hanna did wrong in debating with that Manford. He has in- troduced a viper into this county, and I fear some are already stung to death. Well, I did my duty. I stayed at home, and did all I could to keep my neighbors at home. But they were possessed with a desire to hear the debate, and the result is even worse than I expected. Our minister is going to try to undo the evil in our neighborhood. Next Sunday he will preach a sermon against Universalism."
M. " Did your minister hear the discussion?"
S. " He did ; and he says he went there to learn what could be said in favor of such a doctrine. He is sure he can convince all it is false as sin. One of my neighbors says he shall send for Manford to reply to him. But he cannot speak in our church. He may be sure of that."
CHAPTER VIII.
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