USA > Pennsylvania > Colonial records of Pennsylvania, Vol. IV > Part 44
Note: The text from this book was generated using artificial intelligence so there may be some errors. The full pages can be found on Archive.org (link on the Part 1 page).
Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6 | Part 7 | Part 8 | Part 9 | Part 10 | Part 11 | Part 12 | Part 13 | Part 14 | Part 15 | Part 16 | Part 17 | Part 18 | Part 19 | Part 20 | Part 21 | Part 22 | Part 23 | Part 24 | Part 25 | Part 26 | Part 27 | Part 28 | Part 29 | Part 30 | Part 31 | Part 32 | Part 33 | Part 34 | Part 35 | Part 36 | Part 37 | Part 38 | Part 39 | Part 40 | Part 41 | Part 42 | Part 43 | Part 44 | Part 45 | Part 46 | Part 47 | Part 48 | Part 49 | Part 50 | Part 51 | Part 52 | Part 53 | Part 54 | Part 55 | Part 56 | Part 57 | Part 58 | Part 59 | Part 60 | Part 61 | Part 62 | Part 63 | Part 64 | Part 65 | Part 66 | Part 67 | Part 68 | Part 69 | Part 70 | Part 71 | Part 72 | Part 73 | Part 74 | Part 75 | Part 76 | Part 77 | Part 78 | Part 79 | Part 80 | Part 81
1
414
MINUTES OF THE
Bill intitled An Act, &ca, which were read, and are as follows, Viz4 :
" A Message to the Governor from the House of Representatives.
"May it please the Governor:
"We were in hopes any further Application of our's in Relation to the Bill intituled ' An Act for the better raising Money on the Inhabitants of the City of Philada., &ca, might have been unne- cessary; But as our Inclinations to decline a Controversy which arose on that Bill seems to be much understood, and we are told more might have been expected from us, We hope the Governor will excuse this further Trouble.
"The Return of the Bill before-mentioned, with the Reasons against it and the Governor's Declaration that therefore he could not give his Assent to the Bill, gave Rise to the Message objected to, in which we declared our Opinion to be that it 'nearly affected the Rights, Priviledges, and Freedom of the Assembly;' on which the Governor is pleased to observe-1. That this is a charge of a high Nature. 2. Without the least Foundation. 3. That we per- ceive in it after Instances produced by him of like Practices in the Terms of Former Governors.
"The Justification of our past Conduct, and the Desires we have of a fair understanding with the Governor, render it necessary we should say something to each of these, Especially since our not Answering, in the Governor's Opinion, may be taken for a full Confutation.
"1. As to the Charge in General, if what we have said amount to any, We see no Reason why it should be aggravated into a Charge of a high Nature, for as we no where have said or insinuated it was done with an Intent to deprive us of the Rights and Privileges we supposed were affected by it, It had been more kind to have thought we attributed it (as in Truth we did) rather to Mistake than Design.
"2. That our Charge (if a Charge it must be) of its affecting our Rights, &ca., was without the least Foundation, is what we are not as yet convinced of; and until the Arguments we have advanced in Support of our Opinion are clearly answered, We conceive we have a Right to be excused in thinking differently.
"3. Perseverance in a Charge after we were convinced of our Mistake would indeed have been Criminal; but whenever those Convictions are wanting (notwithstanding the Instances referr'd to) we hope it cannot be justly accounted a Fault, for altho' the In- stances referr'd to had really been similar to the present Case under Consideration, we do not think it necessarily follows that such Proceedings might not affect our Rights or be attended with the ill Consequences we have mentioned. It may, indeed, be allowed that
415
PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.
if there be nothing new or uncommon in them- nothing but what is agreeable to antient Practices on like Occasions-there is more to be said in Defence thereof than We have hitherto admitted; But how far this is to be supported by the Instances to which we are referred (since it seems to have been expected of us) we are next to consider.
"The first is in the Year 1721. A bill was proposed to the Gov- ernor for the Time being, for vesting the Society Lands in Trustees, &ca., and so much of his answer as is pertinent to the present. Debates is, viz *ยท:
""'That he could not in Duty and Conscience give his assent to any such Law before the several Evidences, Facts, and Circum- stances upon which the Equity and Justice of this Bill must depend had been fairly made out and laid before him.'
"On which we observe that it is so far from being a direct Denial of the Bill, without giving the Assembly an Opportunity of being heard to it, that it clearly implies an Inclination in the Governor to give his assent to the Bill on the Terms proposed, viz": Proofs of the Facts on which the Justice of the Bill depended being first laid before him.
"The second Instance we are referred to is in the year 1722. An Act was then proposed for the Governor's Assent 'For ascertain- ing the Rates of particular Species of Coin, &ca.' To which Bill we find the Governor and Council made some Observations, but no Declaration is made by the Governor whether he would or would not give his Assent to it, and therefore has no Relation to the present Debate.
"The third Instance is in the year 1724. A Bill was proposed to the Governor for regulating and establishing Fees, &ca To which after enumerating his Reasons he concludes as follows, vizt:
""'That he cannot pass it in the Terms it is now conceived, and therefore proposes it may be delayed until the next Assembly.'
"This was so far from being a direct denial of the Bill, without hearing the Assembly, it is obvious that the Governor discovers an Inclination to pass it if properly amended, and to this End pro- posed the further Consideration thereof at the next Assembly.
"The fourth Instance is in the year 1725. A Bill was proposed to be passed for the distilling of Spirits, &ca. The Governor and Council after enumerating several Reasons against the Bill, con- cludes :
""Wherefore the Governor and Council do altogether disapprove of this Bill, &ca,'
"This we acknowledge comes the nearest to the method the Gover- nor is pleased to take with us, and yet does not, in our opinion, come fully up to it-It being no direct Denial of the Bill, but left
416
MINUTES OF THE
Room for further application; and if the Governor's own Experience does not furnish him with an Instance of giving his assent to a Law which he altogether disapproved of, We think many might be given in the Times of those who preceeded him; besides, being a single Instance, it will not prove it a Practice, nor make such Denials usual.
"The Fifth Instance is also in the year 1725. A Bill was pro- posed for Re-emitting the Paper Currency. On its being presented to the Governor for his Assent, he proposed an Amendment to one of the Clauses in that Bill. The Assembly disagreed to the Amend- ment, on which the Governor peremptorily refuses on any Terms to admit of the said Clause, that is, as we take it, the Clause in the Bill to which this Amendment was proposed.
"This we can by no means admit to come up to the Point in Ques- tion ; for when the Assembly disagreed to the Governor's Amend- ment, they had an Opportunity of offering the Reasons of such their Disagreement. And the Governor's Power of insisting on any Amendment proposed by himself, where he shall think it just, is what we never contended against.
"The sixth Instance is in the year 1735, relating to a Bill pro- posed for the more effectual preventing of Wears and Damms, &ca. In which, after divers Messages had past for and against the Bill, the Governor (for Reasons which he there gave) desires,
"' He may not be further pressed in Relation to that Bill.'
"But this being after the House had an Opportunity of saying all they thought fit for the Bill, can be no Proof of the Practice we contend against, nor does it contain any direct Negative to the Bill.
"The last Instance is in the year 1739, In the Governor's own time, which also falls short of the Proof of the Point to which it was adduced-It in effect only insisting upon some Amendments to the Bill, gave the Assembly the opportunity of being heard, and did not contain an absolute Negative to the Bill proposed.
"We have now examined all the Instances pointed out to us, and have no Reasons to change our Sentiments concerning them. We have not taken this Pains for the sake of Victory, or to heighten the Misunderstanding which hath subsisted on the Occasion. We are desirous of the contrary. And as we looked upon a Principal Point, viz", the being heard in support of our Bill, to be gained, we should not have chosen to be thus particular had we not thought it necessary to acquit ourselves from the Imputation of having ex- hibited A Charge of a high Nature against the Governor, without the least Foundation; whether we have been so happy as to have effected this to the Governor's Satisfaction we must submit to his Consideration.
"On what has passed in relation to the printing of Messages, with the Reasons for or against Bills in our Minutes, the Governor does not disagree with us (if we rightly understand him); we have ad-
417
PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.
mitted it is sometimes done, and the Governor by affirming it is Practised we presume does not mean is always Practised, because that would be an evident Mistake, and to distinguish between such Objections to Bills sign'd by the Governor and those signed by the Secretary, or those unsign'd by either, is not supported by any Reason, nor that we know of considered as a Rule for or against printing. The truth as we conceive really is, the doing of it or not doing of it is discretionary, and therefore the Governor must excuse us if we yet think it would not have been reasonable in respect to his Ob- jections against the Bill now under consideration, unless we had also printed the Bill. Because those Objections contain a Charge that it was clear to the Governor the Bill now under Consideration would take from the Mayor and Commonalty (besides other things) a Lot of Land belonging to them, which appears as clearly to our understanding without Foundation, and that no part of the Bill, if rightly considered, can give the least Colour for such Objections.
"We are unwilling to swell our Answer beyond what the neces- sity of the Occasion requires, and therefore we hope the Governor will Excuse our not being particular in Relation to some other Parts of the last Message.
"By Order of the House, " J. KINSEY, Speaker. " Philada., the 14th of the 3d month, 1740."
A Reply to the Governor's Answer to the Reasons offered by the Assembly in Support of the Bill entituled "An Act for the better raising Money on the Inhabitants of the City of Philadelphia, &ca."
" First, we observe, That tho' it is true the Honble Grantor's making the Mayor and Commonalty independent of himself and his Governors may be a good Cause to prevent the People's entertain- ing Jealousies of their being under any undue Influence from thence, yet their being a distinct independent Body from the other In- habitants of the City, does not seem to be a good Reason why they should be more agreeable to us, or indeed to any Body, unless it be so to themselves.
"2. If the Mayor and Commonalty has no Power by their Char- ter to Tax the Inhabitants towards building Houses, Bridges, Wharfs, &ca", without their Consent, as the Governor seems to ad- mitt, it follows that when the Law vests the Power of Taxing the People and disposing of the Money in other Hands, it does not deprive them of any Power they are entituled to by their Charter, but it is only an Alteration of a former Law, by which the Mayor, Recorder, and Alderman, had some power vested in them in Con- junction with the Assessors, to which the Common Council Men were no Parties. And it appears clear to us, that the Mayor, Re- corder, and Alderman, are of themselves no Body Corporate, nor can VOL. IV .- 27.
418
MINUTES OF THE
they do any one corporate Act independent of the Common Council, and of consequence that the present Bill does not infringe any Rights the Mayor and Commonalty have by virtue of their Charter, tho' it does lessen the Power given the Mayor and Alderman by the former Law; and if any publick Convenience is found in such an Alteration, have not the Legislature the same Right in respect to that Act as to any other.
" It is objected that the Power the Mayor, Recorder, and Al- derman, have left them by the Bill, is to wait upon the Commis- sioners and Assessors and propose Regulations, &ca,, which they may or may not regard as they please. But is not that pretty much the Case in respect to the City Law now in being ? Is it not much like the County Levy Act in that Case ? and what Inconveniences have arisen from thence? If the Deficiency be in point of Ceremony only the Bill may be amended-the Commissioners & Assessors may wait upon the Mayor, Recorder, and Alderman, instead of being waited upon.
" In our Answer to the Governor's Objections to the Bill we ob- served that when the Law grants any Thing it also grants the Means necessary to obtain the End. We presume it will not be contro- verted but that the Rule is good, and was offered by us in support of Powers intended to be bestowed by the Bill on the Commission- ers, wherein the Governor supposed it to be deficient. But how this comes to be applyed to the Raising of Money by the Commissioners and Assessors without the City Majistrates (which the Bill never intended), is what we must leave the Governor to determine.
"3. It seems to be allowed that the Bill proposed being in the Affirmative, it will not debar the Mayor and Commonalty of any Rights they might lawfully exercise before ; unless the Affirma- tive words imply (as we conceive they do not) a Negative. The Case put in relation to the Election of a Mayor we conceive is not a parallel Case, because as there can be but one Mayor, if an Act had vested the Election in the Inhabitants it must consequently imply a Negative to any other Method of Choosing. But were the Law to authorize the Inhabitants the chuse three Citizens, who when elected should have the same Power as the Alderman, it would not imply a Negative, but the Aldermen and the Persons elected by virtue of the Act would thereby have like Powers. And this Case we conceive nearer a Parallel than the former. The Mayor and Commonalty when they build or regulate at their own Expence may do it by their Charter; but when it is to be done by a Tax on the Inhabitants, the Law we suppose may place it in other Hands with- out any Confusion or Irregularity.
"4. That the Mayor and Commonalty were heard before us is true ; but why it should be supposed this Bill, in a Parliamentary way, ought to have stopped (altho' no Charge had been made good
419
PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.
against them), when it appeared to us to need an Amendment, wants further Explanation to render clear to us.
" 5. Admitting the Facts to be true as stated in the Narration the Governor is pleased to give us of what appeared before him, we think it evident there was a Neglect somewhere in not settling the public Accounts ; therefore, if an easier Method can be found out for the settling of those Accounts (which is one of the Amend- ments proposed by the Bill), what Inconvenience can attend the Enacting of it? That this Bill has engrossed our principal atten- tion we think is a Mistake; altho' if it had been so the Service of the Inhabitants of the City of Philadelphia (being so considerable a Part of the Province) would have been a sufficient Inducement to that purpose had the Affair required it. And if the hopes the Governor conceived of this Bill being prosecuted no further, arose on any Satisfaction the Parties were supposed to have received from him, the contrary is evident to us who have had a Petition from a great Number of the Inhabitants since our present Meeting (of which Number the Assessors and some of the Common Council are a Part), desiring our further Application in order to obtain a Pas- sage for the Bill.
"On the whole, if there be any Parts of the Bill which may be supposed to affect the just Rights of the Corporation, or not to give so much power to the Mayor and Commonalty, consistent with the good of the Inhabitants, as may be necessary, those Parts may be amended, without wholly destroying a Bill which great Numbers of the Citizens seem so desirous to obtain.
"We, therefore, entreat the Governor will be pleased to review and reconsider the Bill, with what has been offered in Support of it, and to give us his Determination at our next meeting."
The Governor likewise laid before the Board a Message of the 15th Instant, which he sent to the Assembly, relating to the Bill intitled An Act, &ca., which was read, and is as follows, vizt .:
" His Honour, the Governor, to the Gentlemen of the Assembly : "Gentlemen :
" When I first sent down the Bill now returned you, I then gave you my Reasons why I could not pass it into a Law. That Method I then took as the most likely to satisfie your House that I did not refuse my Assent to the Bill without having Reasons which were at least sufficient, in my own judgment, for my Refusal. But by your Opinion, it seems, I was mistaken. Therefore, That I may not again disoblige you, nor occassion a further Expence to the Country by spending more time in fruitless Messages upon the Subject Matter of that Bill, I will upon this Occasion observe the Rule you were pleased to lay down for me in your Message at your
420
MINUTES OF THE
last adjournment, and, without assigning any Reasons for my Re- fusal, say, That I do rejeet this Bill.
" GEO. THOMAS.
" Philada., May 15th, 1740.
" By His Honour's Command.
" Thomas Lawrie, Secretary."
At a Council held at Philada., May 30th, 1740.
PRESENT :
The Honble GEORGE THOMAS, Esqr., Lieutenant Governor, Clement Plumsted, Samuel Hasell,
Thomas Laurence,
Thomas Griffitts, Esqrs.
Ralph Assheton,
The Minutes of the 19th instant were read and approved.
The Governor laid before the Board a Letter he had wrote and sent by Nicholas Seull to the King or Chiefs of the Indians to whom Awannemeak is Subject, which being read was approved of, and is as follows, viz *:
" May 20th, 1740.
" Friends and Brethren :
" Some of the Inhabitants of the Menesineks inform'd me two days agoe, in a Letter signed by them, that one Henry Webb was barbarously wounded in the Face and Head on the 13th of this Month, so that his Life is in great Danger, by a young Indian Man named Awannemeak, without any Provocation or hurt offered to the said young Indian Man, and they have sent him down from thence in a Canoe to Philada for want of a Surgeon in those Parts to cure him. He is now here, and is under the Care of one who has represented to me that one of his wounds is very deep, and that if he does live he will be utterly disabled from doing any thing to support himself for the time to come.
"I am very much concerned for the Wickedness of this young Indian Man ; and, therefore, I say to you, That you are fully sen- sible that by the many past Treaties between you and us it is in the firmest manner established and agreed that we should all be as one People; that wrongs done by any of either side should be re- dressed, and the Offenders punished without any Distinction, and you well know when any of our people have taken the life of an Indian the guilty Persons have been put to Death for it, as if the Injury had been done to one of ourselves, without any Difference ; therefore, when any of yours are guilty of any such Crime, we do expect they shall in like manner be punished for it. And in all
421
PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.
Cases of this Nature, we consider the guilty Person only. If he be a Christian, no other Christian or White Man is put to any trouble, and in the same manner if he be an Indian, we do not account any other Indian answerable for it but the guilty only, and he alone is to be punished ; Only this is to be remembered, that if any of our People commit a Crime and fly for it, our Officers and People search after them and must find them; And so we expect when any of yours commit a Crime, your People shall undertake to find them & cause them to be kept in Prison till they can be prosecuted and punished; but if the Offence be no Murther or some such grievous Crime, a lesser punishment is inflicted on their Bodies, or sometimes they are fined in a Sum of Money to make Satisfaction for their Offence.
"Now I do expect that you cause the young Indian Man, Awan- nemeak, to be immediately apprehended and delivered up, that he may be punished in case Henry Webb should die of the wounds he received from him, and in case that he should recover (which I heartily wish he may), that he may be obliged to make him Satis- faction, besides paying all the Charges of his Cure and of nursing and keeping, and if he is not able of himself to do this, his Friends should help him and do it for him, till by his own Diligence in Hunting he can make Satisfaction to make.
" And on this occasion I desire you to caution all your young Men not to come amongst our People with any dangerous Weapons, that all further Mischief may be avoided, for we must all live friendly and peaceably together. We are to take care that none of our People shall hurt yours, and you must take the like Care that none of yours be disorderly and hurt any, either white Men or In- dians ; and as I cannot doubt but in this and all other Cases you will shew yourselves true and good Men by faithfully performing what you have repeatedly engaged by your Treaties with us, I de- sire that you who are innocent may not be under any fear or ap- prehension, and that you will rest satisfied that I am
" Your true Friend and Brother.
"To the King or Chiefs of the Nation of Indians to whom Awan- nemeak is Subject."
At a Council held at Philada., June 26th, 1740.
PRESENT :
The Honble GEORGE THOMAS, Esqr., Lieut. Governor. Anthony Palmer, Ralph Assheton,
Clement Plumsted,
Samuel Hasell, Esqrs.
Thomas Laurence, Thomas Griffitts,
The Minutes of the 30th of May last were read and approved.
The Governor laid before the Board a Letter from his Grace the
422
MINUTES OF THE
Duke of Newcastle, of the fifth of April last, which was read, as also His Majesty's Instructions relating to the raising of Forces in this Province, of the second of April last, &ca .; and a Proclamation was ordered to be made out accordingly.
Ordered, That Writs be made out to Summon the Representa- tives of this Province to meet the Governor in Assembly on Wed- nesday the Second of July next.
Governor Clarke's Letter, giving Information of the Apprehend- ing of Robert Jenkins the Counterfeiter of the Paper-Money of the Lower Counties, was likewise read.
At a Council held at Philada., July 2d, 1740.
PRESENT :
The Honble GEORGE THOMAS, Esqr., Lieut. Governor.
Samuel Preston, Thomas Laurence, r Anthony Palmer, Samuel Hasell, Esqrs.
Clement Plumsted, Thomas Griffitts,
The Governor laid before the Board a Speech he had prepared to be spoken to the Assembly this Evening; which being read and ap- proved, As also the Draught of a Proclamation pursuant to the King's Instruction.
- -
EODEM DIE, P. M.
PRESENT :
The Honble GEORGE THOMAS Esqr., Lieut. Governor. Thomas Laurence, Samuel Hasell,
Ralph Assheton, Thomas Griffitts, Esqrs.
Two Members of the Assembly having waited on the Governor and informed him that their House was met in Obedience to Writts issued by his Honour, The Governor acquainted them that he had something to communicate to the House that Evening which immediately concerned His Majesty's Service ; accordingly the whole House waited on the Governor, who made the following Speech, &ca., a Copy of which was delivered to the Speaker with the following Extracts of His Majesty's Instructions, and his Grace the Duke of Newcastle's Letter :
" Mr. Speaker and Gentlemen of the Assembly. " Gentlemen :
" I have called you together by His Majesty's Command, under his Royal Sign Manual, to lay before you such parts of His Ma- jesty's Instructions as particularly concern you, as the Assembly of
A D
t t
423
PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.
this Province ; And it is to be hoped you will pay the Regard to them which becomes dutiful Subjects to His Majesty, who hath entered into a War, not to gratifie any Ambitious Views or Designs, but at the desire of His Parliament, to vindicate the Honour of His Imperial Crown, to revenge the Injurys done to His Subjects by an insolent and barbarous Nation, and to assert their undoubted Rights of Commerce and Navigation. And that Parliament have not only given His Majesty the strongest Assurances That they will sustain, with Satisfaction and Chearfulness, any extraordinary Expences and Inconveniences that must inevitably attend the va- rious and extensive Services which His Majesty shall find necessary for procuring Justice to an injured and provoked Nation, But have actually laid a Tax over and above the many former Taxes of four Shillings in the Pound, upon all the Landed Estates in Great Britain ; which (however grievous it may possibly appear to you who live free from Taxes) is paid with Chearfulness by His Majesty's Sub- jects there, as it is necessary to forward and give Spirit to His Majesty's Preperations.
" His Majesty expects no more of you, tho' your Interests are as much at Stake as any of His British Subjects, 'than a Provision of Victuals, Transports, and all other necessarys for the Troops to be raised in this Province till their Arrival at the general Rendez- vous in the West Indies, His Majesty having promised to furnish them with Cloaths, Tents, Arms, Ammunition, and Pay from the Day of their Inlisting'. And as this may be complyed with with- out raising one shilling on the People, since you have five or six Thousand Pounds Interest Money, and near four thousand Pounds Per Ann., arising from the last Paper-Money Act (the Money raised by the Excise Law being sufficient for defraying the annual Charges of the Government), I hope you will not, for your own Sakes, even hesitate upon it, but immediately grant what shall be necessary, that the Expedition may not be retarded for want thereof ; Espe- cially when it shall be considered that the Principal from whence these Interest Sums have been acquired was not raised upon the People, or out of their Estates, but is purely owing to the Grace and Favour of His Majesty in not disapproving the several Acts by which it was raised.
Need help finding more records? Try our genealogical records directory which has more than 1 million sources to help you more easily locate the available records.