USA > New York > Nassau County > Oyster Bay > A documentary history of het (the) Nederdvytsche gemeente. Dutch congregation, of Oyster Bay, V. 10 > Part 2
Note: The text from this book was generated using artificial intelligence so there may be some errors. The full pages can be found on Archive.org (link on the Part 1 page).
Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6 | Part 7 | Part 8 | Part 9 | Part 10 | Part 11
Which is the most real Value to Man Silver or Steel? After A Considerable Debate on the Question it was Decided that Steel was of the most Value.
For Silver, 2. For Steel, 5.
A Move was then made and Carried for Suspending the 18th Article of the Bye-Laws at the time of the next General Meeting for that Day.
Proceedings of Monday the 28th December, 1801.
The Question was then read for A Discussion,
Which Generally Lives the most contented in mind, the Farmer or the Mechanic?
After some Debate it was Decided that the Farmer lived the most Contented.
For the Farmer: 6. For the Mechanic: 2.
The Question was then put for Discussion: Which is the Generallity of Mankind the most Addicted to, Negligence or Superstition? It was Decided that they were the most Addicted to Negligence, as follows:
For Negligence: 7. For Superstition: I.
848
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
A Proposal was then made for an Amendment to the Ninth Article of the Constitution, by Striking out the words And re- fuses payment.
The following was then proposed for an Amendment to the bye-Laws in these words: That whenever A Majority of the Members of the Debating Society shall Assemble at the place appointed to hold our Ordinary and General Meetings it shall be Lawful to proceed to business in the Ordinary way. Any thing Contained in the Bye-Laws to Contrary not withstanding.
Proceedings of Monday, the 11th of January, 1802.
The Members proceeding to the Electing of officers in which the following Persons were Elected,
Elbert Hegeman, President. Roelof I. Schenck, Vice President. Aaron V. Nostrand, Secretary. Joseph Hegeman, Treasurer.
The words and refusing payment in the 9th Article of the Constitution where struck out.
The Article brought forward for an Amendment to the Bye- Laws at the Meeting of the 28th of December 1801 was Adopted by the Society.
A motion was made and carried that the Society should meet once a fortnight.
Proceedings on Monday the 25th of Jan. 1802.
The Question for Discussion.
Are there any causes except fear, Love, Interest and Honor that Excite men to act either in word or deed Admitting them to have the necessaries of Life. After a considerable Debate the Question was decided as follows:
Yeas. 3. Nays. 5.
The Question for Discussion: Which is the most Pernicious to Health, Excess of Eating or Excess of Drinking?
After some Debate the Question was Decided as follows:
Eating: 4. Drinking: 4.
Decided by the President in favor of Drinking.
Proceedings of Monday, the 8th of Feby. 1802.
Daniel Hegeman was chosen President for the Meeting and took the Chair and called to order. The Question was then read:
849
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
Doth a man that is a Profane Swearer think it an honor to himself or not?
After a considerable Debate the Question was Decided as follows:
Ycas. 2. Nays. 3.
Proceedings on Monday, March the 22nd. 1802 The Question was then read:
Which is the most Ruling Passion Interest or Honor? After a Considerable Debate the Question was decided as follows:
For Honor: 1. For interest: 5.
The following Amendment was then brought forward to the roth Article of the Constitution that the four shall be so altered as to read three, and the words making a provision for a general meeting in every July to be eraced out so that to the end there shall be but three general meeting in a year and that in July abolished.
Proceedings of the GENERAL MEETING on Monday the 12th of April, 1802.
Then proceeded to the Election of officers in which the follow- ing Persons were Elected,
Elbert Hegeman, for President. Roelof I. Schenck, V. President.
Aaron V. Nostrand, Secretary. Joseph Hegeman, Treasurer.
The Amendment proposed on the 22nd of March to amend the Ioth Article of the Constitution was then brought forward and adopted.
Proceedings on Monday the 26th of April. 1802.
The Question for Discussion was then read. Which is the most profit, to raise geese or turkies?
After a considerable Debate the Question was decided as follows.
For turkies : 3. For geese. 3.
Decided by the President in favor of geesc.
Proceedings on Monday the roth of May. 1802.
The Question was then read. Which is the most Satisfactory
850
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
way of being rich In surpressing our Desires or being in more affluent circumstances to gratify them. After a Considerable de- bate the Question was decided as follows:
Surpressing our Desires: 4. To gratify them: 2.
A motion was then made and carried that the Society Adjourn until the third Monday in September and the Secretary to notify the members within fourteen Days of the said Meeting.
Proceedings on Monday the 20th of September : 1802. The Question was then read:
Which is the most advantage for the Husbandman to cultivate Timothy or Clover? After some Debate thereon it was unani- mously carried in favor of Timothy. A Motion was made and agreed to by all the members present that the President draw on the Treasurer for such money as is in the Treasury for the purpose of purchasing a Ticket in the Lottery for the Debating Society.
Proceedings on Monday the 4th of October: 1802.
The Question was then read-Doth the Earth bring forth Vegetables or plants Natural or not. After a Considerable De- bate it was decided:
Natural: 3. From the Seed: 4.
Proceedings on Monday the Ioth of Jan. 1803.
Then proceeded to the Election of officers in which the follow- ing Persons where chosen,
Elbert Hegeman, President. Roelof I. Schenck, V. President. Aaron V. Nostrand, Secretary. Joseph Hegeman, Treasurer.
Question was then read. Which is the most unhappy the blind man or the deaf one.
After a Lengthy Debate it was Decided as follows:
For the blind man, 2. For the Deaf man, 4.
Proceedings on Monday the 24th of January, 1803.
The Question was then read, Which is the most dangerous enemy, the Lyar or the Thief?
After some Debate it was decided as follows:
For the Lyar: 6. For the Thief: I.
851
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
Proceedings on Monday the 7th of February. 1803.
The Question was then read.
An Instance that Lord Coke tells of. There being two Brothers one dies leaving an Estate and an only child, the other Educates it and one night correcting it, it cried dear uncle do not kill me, and next morning it was gone. Nobody knew whither, this brother is accused of his death upon evidence of he matter aforesaid that he beat it, it was young, about nine years old, it cried as afforesaid. It was never heard of since, and that the Uncle enjoys an Estate by this, the jury found him guilty and he was hanged.
Now the Question is whether the above Evidence was sufficient to Convict and hang the man or not. After a lengthy Debate it was carried unanimously that the above evidence was not sufficient to Convict and hang the man.
Proceedings on Monday the 21st of February 1803.
The Question was then read:
Which would be the most wisdom to undertake, to silence a fool, or let him run on in his folly. After a Lengthy debate it was decided as follows:
to silence. 6. to run on. I.
The second Question was then proposed: Would Waggons be more useful if made wider than the present width or not? It was carried unanimously that it would be more useful if made wider.
Benjamin Coles and Simeon Crooker were then proposed to the Society as desirous of becoming members of the same.
The Amendment was then proposed to the roth Article of the Bye-Laws in these words: Resolved for the future, the method of Voting on a Question shall be to rise:
Proceedings on Monday the 21st of March: 1803.
Benjamin Coles and Simeon Crooker where then elected mem- bers of the Society. The Question was then read, Which is the greatest vice, Drunkenness or Whoreing?
After a very lengthy debate it was Unanimously carried that Whoring was the greatest vice.
852
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
Proceedings on Monday the 4th of April, 1803.
The Question was then read: Which would be the most vi- cious practice, profane swearing or Lying? After some debate it was unanimously carried that lying was the most vicious.
A motion was made for an Article in addition to the Constitution.
Proceedings on Monday the 11th of April, 1803, being the General Meeting.
Then Proceeding to the Electing of officers who where Elected as follows.
Elbert Hegeman, President. Roelof I. Schenck, V. President. Aaron V. Nostrand, Secretary. Joseph Hegeman, Treasurer.
The Article brought forward at the last Meeting for an Amend- ment to the Constitution was Adopted in the following words, viz:
If it should so happen at any of our General meetings that a House is not made out the old officers shall be continued till the next General Meeting. The Question was then read, Which is the most wholesome drink Cider and Water or Spirits and Water.
After some debate it was decided as follows:
Cyder. 2. Spirits. 4.
Proceedings Monday the 9th of May, 1803.
The Question for Discussion was
Whether foreign trade is of any advantage to our Country? After a lengthy Debate it was decided as follows,
Yeas. 4. Nays. 3.
Jacob Crooker was then proposed to the Society, as being desirous of becoming a Member of the same.
Proceedings on Monday 23d of May, 1803.
Jacob Crooker who was proposed at the last Meeting as being desirous of becoming a member, was Unanimously Elected.
The Question was then read:
Which is the greatest nuisance in a community the tatler or the tale bearer?
After some remarks made thereon the Question was laid aside till the next meeting, and the following Question was then taken.
853
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
In which situation will a man use the most economy where he wants to discharge a certain debt, or where he wants to put the same amount to Interest?
After a Lengthy Debate it was decided as follows.
to discharge a debt. 4. to put to Interest 2.
Proceedings on Monday the 20th of June, 1803.
The Question was then read,
Whether it is essentially necessary for a lawyer to have a Liberal Education in order to the Practice of his Profession.
After a considerable debate it was decided as follows:
Yeas. 6. Nays. 2.
The Question was then taken for Discussion, Which is the greatest nuisance in a community, the tatler or the talebearer?
After some debate thereon it was decided as follows:
Tatler, I. Talebearer. 7.
Resolved unanimously that Roelof I. Schenck be appointed to receive all the money drawn in the Lottery and to purchase two Tickets in the Lottery for the Society.
Proceedings on Monday the 5th of December, 1803
Roelof I. Schenck brought the two tickets and delivered them into the hands of the Treasurer and after settling with the Mem- bers of the Society the following Question was then proposed,
Whether Prosperity or adversity is the most favourable to Virtue :
After some remarks made thereon it was laid aside till the next meeting.
Proceedings on Saturday the 19th of December, 1803. The Question was then read as follows:
Whether dumb beasts have any fore thought or not: After some debate it was decided as follows by Yeas and Nays:
Yeas, 2. Nays, 2
It being decided by the President in favour of the Nays.
Proceedings on Saturday the 11th February, 1804:
Resolved unanimous that Elbert Hegeman President, be appointed to receive all the Money if any there be, drawn in the
854
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
Lottery No. I for the relief of poor Widows and orphans by the tickets No. 6042, 15278.
And further Resolved that the Society purchase six tickets in the Lottery No. 2 for the encouragement of Literature and that Elbert Hegeman President purchase the same.
Proceedings on Saturday the Ioth of March 1804:
The Question was then read. Whether the affection of an Infant to Parents is Natural or comes by Education:
After some debate thereon it was decided as follows,
Natural. 4. Education. 2.
Proceeding on Saturday the 24th day of March, 1804
Jacob Crooker brought forward the Money belonging to the Society, drawn in the Lottery No. I, for the relief of Poor Widows and orphans by the Ticket No. 15278, which drew 200 Dollars of which the Society consisting of nine Members received 13. Dollars each and then leaving 39. Dollars in the hands of the Treasurer and two Tickets at 7. Dollars Each. Numbers as follows 24122, 22286.
Proceedings on Monday the 9th of April, 1804.
Then Proceeded to the Electing of Officers, when the follow- ing Persons where Elected,
Elbert Hegeman, President. Roelof I. Schenck, V. President. Aaron V. Nostrand, Secretary. Joseph Hegeman, Treasurer. The Question was then brought forward, Whether generosity is always commendable?
After some debate had thereon it was decided as follows, viz. Yeas. 3. Nays. 2.
Proceedings on Saturday the 6th of May, 1804.
A Motion was made and Seconded that the Treasurer lay out 36 Dollars for tickets in a Lottery or Lotteries for the Society and Passed unanimously, and further, Resolved that the Society meet the first Saturday in each Month.
Proceedings on Saturday the second of March 1805:
Resolved that the money in the hands of the Treasurer be divided among the Society, and the six tickets, now in the hands
855
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
of Joseph Hegeman and in Lottery No. 3 for the encouragement of literature, there to remain until said Lottery be drawn that Joseph Hegeman be authorized to receive whatever money said tickets may draw, in the above said Lottery, and make equal distribution, of the same, among James Hegeman, Rem B. Simonson, Joseph Hegeman, Elbert Hegeman, Aaron V. Nostrand, Jacob Crooker, Daniel Hegeman and George Monfoort, Jun.
Resolved further that although Harmony and Concord has prevail'd for upwards of four years among the society, we conceive it to be to our Interest to break off from our former compact for the purpose of uniting with A similar society in Woolverhollow.
Therefore, Resolved by this Society that our Constitution, By-Laws, Rules, and Regulations are no more binding on the members of this society and that the society is forever dissolved by mutual Consent.
At a Meeting held at the Cedarswamp Schoolhouse, 2d of March, 1805, by the Farmers Harmonizing Society agreeable to Constitution, Isaac Remsen, Jr. was made Chairman and Sec- retary, and Lieut. Elbert Hageman Treasurer.
A Question proposed by Capt. James Hume :
Can God be just in demanding that obedience from man which he has not in his power to give?
And with little or no opposition was decided in the affirmative, because it was argued that as man had incapacitated himself to obey God it did not deprive God of his demands, tho many of the Society seemed to express a silent Discontent however, the Question being put to a Vote it was carried by a majority, that God could be just in demanding that obedience from man which he has not in his power to give.
Proposed by James Hegeman, Esq.
What character is the most Useful the Economist or the Politician?
It was contended that the Politician was useful and necessary to make and regulate Laws for the preservation both of the life and Affects of the Economist, and after a few weak efforts of the
856
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
oposite party it was left to vote and decided by a majority as follows:
For Politicians, 8. For Economists. 2.
The chairman leaving his Chair the meeting was Closed till next Thursday. Stock 12 Shillings.
A meeting held Thursday March 7th, 1805 at the Dwelling House of Isaac Remsen, Jr. at Woolverhollow.
It was asked by James Hegeman, Esquire
Whether the use of Tobacco was of more advantage to Com- munity than disadvantage.
It was contended that there was an Advantage in many cases in using of Tobacco, Consequently it was of more advantage than disadvantage, but on the contrary it was oppos'd and contended that it was used oftener to disadvantage than to advantage and hence the Question was decided in the negative by a majority of 9 to 2 as follows:
For Disadvantage. 9. For Advantage. 2.
It was asked again by James Hegeman, Esq.
Which would perform the most service, two Horses fed plenty of good hay and corn or four Horses fed plenty of good hay only.
The Society divided their opinions after a considerable debate and manifold Reasonings the difference in the number of horses be so great even as 2 to four it was decided in the negative that four Horses fed as above might be of the most service and voted as follows
For 4 Horses, 6. For 2 Horses, 5.
It was asked the same evening by Esquire James Hegeman Which would be the most advantage to the farmer 200 bushels of Ashes spread on one acre of common land or on 2 acres of the same kind of land.
And after a very little Contest and with a degree of uncer- tainty it was decided by vote in the Negative as follows:
For I acre, Io. For 2 acres. 2.
Concluded till Thursday next. Stock 13 Shillings.
A meeting held at the dwelling house of Isaac Remsen, Wolverhollow, Thursday, March 14th, 1805.
The first question was proposed by Esq. Hegeman.
857
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
Is the Government of the United States a Democratic Government or not.
It was contended in the negative that it was not a pure democracy but on the other part was answered that if it was not a pure democracy it might be democratic and decided by vote as follows:
For Democratic 10. Not for Democratic. 2.
Stock 13 shillings.
At a meeting held March 21st 1805 at the Dwelling House of Esquire James Hegaman Cedarswamp.
It was asked by Aaron Van Nostrand:
Which was the most pleasing, Anticipating pleasure or the present Enjoyment of pleasure?
And after a few Contentious sentiments of debate it was decided by vote as follows,
Anticipating, 5. Present Enjoyment. 4.
Then after Balloting in Jacob Mott as a member, he having been proposed according to Law the meeting was closed till next Thursday. Stock 13 Shillings.
At a meeting held at Wolverhollow March 28, 1805 at Capt. Rem B. Simonson's:
It was asked by Mr. John Mott.
Which bore the greatest Character, a great Statesman or a great General?
The House divided and after a considerable debate and reasons produced by both parties it was decided as follows by vote ---
In favor of the States Man. 4. For the General. 5.
It was also ask'd by James Hegaman, Esq.
Whether there would be any advantage derived from discussing Religious Questions in the Society.
And after Something said on the Subject was decided by vote Unanimously in the Negative that there would be no advantage in discussing Religious Questions in the Society.
They being generally of too great importance and of too solemn a Nature which carried them far above the proceedings of our Society in Discussing of them.
858
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
It was asked the same evening by Aron V. Nostrand Whether the Slave trade from Africa had been of more advantage than disadvantage?
After a considerable Debate was left to Vote and carried by a Majority in the Negative as follows, viz:
For advantage, 4. For Disadvantage. 5.
Cost for paper, I Shilling. Stock 12 Shillings.
At a meeting held April 4th, 1805 at the Dwelling House of Samuel Mott, Wolverhollow,
It was asked how a man gained the greatest Vice by Nature or Education:
And after a considerable debate was decided as follows:
For Nature, 2 For Education, 7.
It was resolved that Members of Similar Societies to ours should have Liberty to speak and Discuss Questions in our meeting, the same as members of our society, but are not ad- mitted to Vote or ballot.
Stock 13 shillings, being increased by admitting a new Member.
At a meeting held at Cedarswamp April 12th, 1805, at the House of Lieut Elbert Hegeman
It was asked by Isaac Remsen Jr. Whether Industry or Frugallity had the greatest tendency to Wealth. And after a few Sentences of Debate, It was unamously agreed that it was Manifest that industry had the greatest tendancy to in- crease Wealth.
It was then asked by Esqr. James Hegeman.
Which was the most Laudable persuit Industry or Frugality.
And after a few Contentious Sentiments past by both parties, It was decided by Vote as follows.
For frugallity. 4 for Industry. 3.
Stock 13 shillings.
At a meeting held at the dwelling house of George Monforts, Wolverhollow April the 18th, 1805.
The Question being asked by Elbert Hegeman, Lieut.
Whether it was more difficult to become a great General or a great Statesman. The house divided and the party for the
859
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
side of the Statesman decently Reasoned the Statesman's duty was greater and more frequently than the Generals, he having always business to attend to either in War or peace and the General had little or nothing to do in time of peace, but the other party considering well that a man must have something to do in order to make himself great, contended that as the statesman had always business on hand in which to exercise his Tallents and make himself great and that the General had not so frequently those opportunities of making himself great, that it was a greater difficulty to become a great General than a great Statesman, the sense of the Society being taken Voted as follows
Statesman, 3 General, 5
Stock 14 Shillings, being increased by admitting a new mem- ber.
At a Meeting held May 2nd, 1805 at the dwelling of Capt. Rem B. Simonson's
It was asked by James Remsen, Jr.
"Whether the Orator or the Reasoner had the preference in Society."
The house being much divided in their opinions about it and both parties strongly contended for their own opinion by acutely reasoning and Sagaciously Contending till at length it being put to vote and decided as follows:
For the Orator: 4. For the Reasoner. 4.
The house being equally divided the Chairman decided it by a Vote in favor of the Reasoner.
Stock 18/6 being increased by Quarterly Payment.
At a meeting held Norwich July 4th, 1805 at the house of Mott & Hegeman:
It was interrogated by Esq. James Hegeman Whether it was good Policy in the Legislature to grant a Charter and in- corporate the Merchants Bank.
But the Question was not Discussed, the Society Adjourn'd to Celebrate the Day.
Stock 18/6.
860
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
At a meeting at Wolverhollow Nov. 21st, 1805 at the house of Isaac Remsen.
The Question for Discussion was "Whether it was good Policy in the Legislature to grant a Charter and Incorporate the Merchants Bank "
There was very little difference in sentiment of Opinions in the Society regarding the Question hence the Question being put the House voted unanimous in favor of not good policy.
It was likewise contended Whether it was most advantage to raise Horses or Cattle: and after a considerable debate it was decided by vote as follows,
For Horses: 4
For Cattle: 2 Stock 18/6.
At a Meeting at Wolverhollow Dec. 18th, 1805 at the house of Rem B. Simonson.
The question for discussion was as follows, viz: "Whether it was the most profit to keep or raise Swine or Sheep."
The house divided and after a considerable debate it was decided in favor of Sheep as follows:
For Swine 2 For Sheep. 6.
The Second Question was Whether the trade to India was any benefit to the United States or not? And after a consider- able debate on the Subject was decided in the negative by vote.
For no benefit, 5 For benefit, 2 Stock 18/6.
At a Meeting held January 21st 1806 at the house of John Remsen, Wolverhollow.
It was ask'd Whether the self same human body would be rais'd again that had once seen corruption. And after many observations made on the Question without any opposition it was unanimously decided in the affirmative.
Again, It was asked whether it would be an advantage or a disadvantage to the United States of America in general to manufacture their own cloths.
The house being of various opinions disputed the Question considerable, but concluded unanimously that it was most advantageous for the Americans to manufactor their own coarse cloths but not their fine as at present.
Stock 18/6.
861
A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY.
At a meeting at the house of Samuel Mott at Wolver Hollow on Monday the 21st December, 1807 for the purpose of organ- izing A Society and James Hegeman, Esq. being unanimously called to the Chair and the House Proceeded to Business, Resolved unanimously that we adopt the Constitution formerly adopted at Cedarswamp January 12th, 1807 as it now stands as a Con- stitution for this Society and for the fullfilment thereof we do hereunto subscribe our names:
James Hegeman John Nostrand
Samuel Sherman
Jacob Mott Tunis Hoagland
John Monfoort
Rem B. Simonson
Aaron V. Nostrand William Weeks
Henry Monfoort Mouris Simonson William Crooker
James McQueen
Titus & Hegeman Jacob Laton
Samuel Titus George Monfoort, Jr. Isaac R. Remsen
George W. Dodge Thomas Jackson
Previous to an ajournment of the aforesaid Meeting the following persons were duly elected to office and to stand until the general meeting.
James Hegeman, President; Aron Van Nostrand, Vice Presi- dent; Rem B. Simonson, Treasurer; Jacob Mott, Secretary.
At a Meeting at the House of Samuel Mott, Wolver Hollow monday December 24th, 1807.
The Question was, which will Carry a man to the greatest length Riches or honour, the House divided and after A debate on the same Was carryed in favour of riches in the following manner: For Riches 6 For Honour. 3.
The Second Question was, which requires the most prudence the art of getting money or saving it, the House divided and after a Considerable debate thereon was carryed in favor of getting in following manner.
Need help finding more records? Try our genealogical records directory which has more than 1 million sources to help you more easily locate the available records.