USA > New York > Greene County > The "old times" corner : first series, 1929-1930 > Part 8
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[*George W. Holdridge and William Ruland. See article on Thurlow Weed in Part 3.1
The signatures are Joseph Hallock. De Witt Mull. A. J. Martin, F. W. Brooks, C. Il. Bennett, S. B. Ahreet, J. D. hreet. P. V. R. Thurman, Frank Knoll. W. Ruland, John Gregory, John Clarke, M. H. Johnson. Brouk Wolle, Henry Coneklin, George W. Holdridge, Philip Dumond, A. D. Wilbur,
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OLD TIMES CORNER
Henry C. Bulkley. James Russ. William Kortz, N. P. Cowles, Geo. I. Cowles, Duke Hoy, John Clough, D. B. Thorpe. Dan Glenlen, H. L. Bassett, P. M. Dumond, 1. 11. Baldwin, A. W. Hunter, Percival Goldin,
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[There is an interesting story here of how we got our waterworks, to be told at some future tinie. It is likely that this petition never was presented to the Trustees. ]
Of course I know what Peter Van Rensselaer Timmerman and Daniel Glennen meant to write, but I give their results. not their intentions. llere is a list of prominent citizens of those days; let's hear what you can tell our readers about them .- C. June 26, 1930.
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The Editor Wishes [1885-1895] a Merry Christmas to all the readers of the "Old Times Corner." But even as he does so he wonders whether there is anywhere the same real merriment that made memorable the Christmases of his youth. Is this generation missing something? Are we grasping for too much and losing the best? Are we spreading the butter too far and too thin?
In those days, though there was suppressed excitement from the day that school "let ont" (without any "tree"), Christmas did not start until we explored our stockings in the early dawn. Wreaths and decorations went up just the night before, not weeks or months ahead. The packages that came by mail were stowed in a "back room" until the great day arrived-truly with a bang. Then, after an early breakfast and the spread- ing forth of the (simple) treasures that Christmas had brought us, we all trudged forth smiling in our "very best" clothes and cleanest shirts to a morning service redolent with joy and song. Packed to the doors was the old church, warm greetings went from mouth to mouth, the choir in full panoply rose to the great occasion and swept the congregation with them in the familiar hymns, while the shortened sermon reached down to the little ones in the pews with the old, old story of our Saviour's birth. Even now I can see and hear John Harris or Madame Defossez singing their glorious, thrilling solos, with "Kate" Casey at the organ. There was "pep" in that organ and joy vibrant in the voices.
Then back home we came, noisily I fear, but happy-noisy and well- meaning toward all, to the delicious. odors of the kitchen; and scarce could we wait until our bibs were tucked in and our chairs pushed up to the table. And there, beaming over their spectacles, would be Grandma and Grandpa: and there, full of wonderful stories, would be the uncles and aunts, from near and far; and so it was nip and tuck for first place between what was going in at our mouths and what was going in at our eyes and what was going in at our ears -- every sense straining to the uttermost to absorb the wealth the day had brought.
Now that was "some Christmas;" and I'll leave it to you: Is it better to have two great days in the year, each packed to the brim, or to string them out into two thin seasons, each starting where the other leaves of- Christmas and Fourth of July? For that is what we are coming to. Is it better to awake late, tired, cross, on Christmas morning, surfeited, too ennuied to go to church, already sickened of candies and sweets? Not
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MERRY CHRISTMAS
having taken my Christmas that way, I don't know. It is your holiday and yours to answer. Perhaps you have the best of it.
Our Historian Says that she has looked through the old newspapers down even to the Civil war days and finds scarce a mention of Christmas -- some- times a poem, occasionally an advertisement that includes "gifts for the Holidays." The first Christmas tree in Leeds was introduced by a gentle- man from Germany much less than a hundred years ago. The church notices were surprisingly brief and simple, and of course only St. Luke's kept Christmas until St. Patrick's came in 1853. It was almost a crime in the Evangelical churches then, indeed in Massachusetts it was a crime. as witness the following item that Mrs. Vedder has unearthed in the Catskill Recorder of January 15, 1829:
"Law in Colony of Massachusetts, 1651."
"Whosoever shall be found observing any such day as Christmas and the like, either by forbearing labor, feasting, or any other way, upon such account as aforesaid, every such person so offending, shall pay for every such offense, five shillings, as a fine to the county."-C. Dec. 19, 1929.
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THE OLD DUTCH CHURCH AT LEEDS 1732 (Building of 1815)
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Pon it:
Madame Dies' House, called the "Stone Jug" or "Dies' Folly." Erected 1763 at Catshill "Landing."
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THE "OLD TIMES" CORNER
Edited by George H. Chadwick in the interests of the Greene County Historical Society and the Greene County Genealogical So- ciety. Correspondents and all interested persons are invited to join the societies.
PART 3: FAMILY AND PERSONAL.
Your Ancestry
is probably largely unknown to you, but not necessarily unknowable and possibly more glorious than you have dreamed. If, for example, I should ask a show of hands by the descendants of Pieter Schuyler who live in our midst, very few fingers would be lifted, but if I name your grandfathers and great-grandfathers (Dimond, DeWitt, Van Orden, Fiero, etc.), that were descended from Pieter up would come a raft of hands. You never knew it. Our "corner" and our societies will help you find it out. The same would be true of Abram Verplanck, Anna Stuyvesant, Dominie Bo- gardus, Wessel TenBroeck, Lonis DuBois, Lord DuMont, Anthony Crispel, even John of Barneveld, William of Orange, the royal lines of Europe. Recently I surprised a young man in Catskill by a list of his famous ances- tors. Just such surprises may await you. Prinees and princesses are to stand up and be counted.
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But while we mention thus some of the old settlers, let it not be supposed that the newer comers are less necessary to the completeness of our history. While their ancestry across the waters is still in memory it should be put on record with our County Historian, Mrs. J. V. V. Vedder, for the information of their descendants of generations to come.
There are, moreover, the Puritan and Pilgrim families from "down east" that fared hardily forth into our mountains and valleys, and about whom we need chiefly the stories of the last three or four generations in order to carry them back to their pioneer forefathers in New England, to colonial governors, Indian wars and perhaps the "Mayflower," not to mention William of Normandy, or the barons of Runnymede. - C. Nor. 7, 1929.
True and False
reasons for being interested in your ancestry were given recently, according to the New York Times, by Howard S. Fitz Randolph, librarian of the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society.
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It would not be natural, according to Mr. Randolph, for any one not to feel pleased on finding that one of his forebears had been a man of mark. But it is so easy to let this feeling become too prominent. In this way has been developed the genealogical snob, perhaps the greatest bore in existence.
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OLD TIMES CORNER
"I am not referring to that delightful old aunt of yours," continued Mr. Randolph, "whom Oliver Wendell Holmes called 'the one sad, un- gathered rose on my ancestral tree,' and who may be persuaded to bring out the family Bible or album and tell stories of the forgotten past. Snobs are quite different creatures-they brag of one line of ancestors and ignore the rest. If their grandmother came of a family that did not amount to much they forget her-or, and this is worse-hitch her up with some famous persons of the same name.
These people get no fun out of tracing their ancestors. The fnu comes to the fellow who proves them wrong, for no matter how hard you try to prevent it every family tree produces some sap.
"A person even more tiresome is the one who says 'I have no ancestors and am proud of it.' He is self-created and self-made. self-sufficient and insufferable. All you can do is ask after his grandchildren."
The next question is the manner of studying your ancestors. The
first thing to do, Mr. Randolph says, is to make a chart, giving every date you can, culled from family Bibles, papers and so on. Then find if anything has been written on the subject. Probably not a little can be got in printed genealogies-but must not necessarily be believed until checked.
"A lady who insisted she be admitted to a patriotic society had this aptly demonstrated to her when the records showed her supposed ancestor. married in 1710, had apparently had a grandson in 1720." She merely smiled sweetly, Mr. Randolph said, saying "Dates mean nothing to me."
Genealogical research cannot always be conducted along simple lines. "Our ancestors had an amazing desire for change. Often when you get where you feel they ought to be, you find no trace of them. Then the real fun begins. To search in out of the way places; to discover unknown relatives with their treasured family Bibles and other relies; to visit for- gotten, unkempt graveyards; to write letters to persons of whom you did not know the existence a year before, and sometimes get an answer: to pester town clerks and surrogates' offices; to pore over old deeds and wills till your eye-sight fails, smiling over quaint phraseology- - and to discover at last the long sought for ancestor. Not until you have done these things can you have the real joy of finding your forefathers."-". June 26, 1930.
Follow the Female Lines
back. Surprises may await you. A lady once resident here has just sent me her ancestral record, "single track" on one surname, back fo 1600. Wives are barely mentioned, but among them I found the granddaughter of an English nobleman, and at least one other illustrious line. DON'T NEGLECT THE WIVES. They too are your ancestors .- ('. Nor. 21, 1929.
You Can Help Greatly
by sending us at once all the information you have about your own family. You can copy for ns the names and dates from grave-stones and especially from the neglected graves and burying grounds that will soon be lost forever. You can talk with the old people and write down their vanishing recollections. You can secure old Bible records, church records, town rec-
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ANCESTOR RECORD OF THE "BLACK PRINCE"
ords, or obtain accurate copies. You can send in old pictures, maps. photographs, books. If you have time and the will to work, ask us for suggestions .- C. Nor. 1, 1929.
The Value of Family Records
publicly preserved is illustrated by a request just received. Had we at this moment the complete records that we are striving to get, the answer would be easy. As it stands, we must ask your help. Who will help out this lady over in England? The matter is urgent and immediate Miss Elizabeth Huntington Moore, writing from Wellfield. England, asks official confirma- tion of the fact that she was born in Catskill [village or town ?] on Dec. 30, 1866, the daughter of Charles Herbert Moore and Mary J. T. Moore. The New York vital records start in 1882 (instead of 1620 as in New England! ), so here we are with nothing to show. Who remembers this faniily, the church they attended, any clew whatsoever? Speak to your friends about it.
Another Request
is for the date of birth and death of Miss Harriet Gaylord, the teacher whose grateful pupils are erecting a monument in her memory but cannot find these important items. The smallest clew will be welcomed .-- C. May 1, 1930.
On Another Page
will be found a blank form for your ancestry record. Just as a sample of how such a record should look we give one below that will do as well for any other child of Edward III, say Lionel, or John of Gaunt, or Edmund Langley Duke of York, or Thomas Woodstock Duke of Gloucester. What have they to do with us? Well, there are several families known to me right here in Greene county that trace back to Edward and Philippa, and besides these well-authenticated lines are easy to put together for illustration. So here you have the
Ancestor Record of the "Black Prince."
1 3. King Edward HII of England & 1. Lady Philippa of Hainanlt
5. King Edward Il of England &
6. Princess Isabella of France
7. Count William III of Hol- & S. Lady Jeanne of Valois
land
9. King Edward I of England & 10. Princess Eleanor of Castile
11. King Philip IV of France 2 12. Princess Jeanne of Navarre
13. Count John Il of Holland
14. Countess Adelaide of Holland
15. Count Charles 1 of Valois
16. (who? )
17. King Henry Ill of England
18. Lady Eleanor of Provence
20. Countess Joan of Ponthieu*
21. King Philip Ill of France
23. King Henry I of Navarre
24. Lady Blanche of Artois
25. Bosschaert of Avesnes C 26. Countess Margaret of Flan- ders
27. Count Floris IV of Holland
29. King Philip IH of France
30. Isabella of Aragon; see 21, 22
1.
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19. King Ferdinand III of Cas- tile and Leon
22. Princess Isabella of Aragon
28. (who?)
OLD TIMES CORNER
V 33. King John 1 of England & 34. Lady Isabella of Angouleme
35. Count Raymond of Provence & 36. Lady Beatrice of Savoy
37. King Alphonso IX of Leon & 38. Queen Berengaria of Castile
41. King Louis IX of France
42. Lady Marguerite of Provence
43. King James I of Aragon & 44. Princess Yolande of Hungary 46. (who?)
45. King Theobald 1 of Navarre &
51. C't Baldwin IX of Flanders, later Emperor of Constantinople 53. Count William I of Holland & 54. (who?)
VI 65. King Henry Il of England & 66. Duchess Eleanor of Aquitaine
73. King Ferdinand HT of Leon & 74. Princess Urraca of Portugal
75. King Alphonso III of Castile & 76. Princess Eleanor of England
81. King Louis VIII of France & 82. Princess Blanche of Castile
89. Count Theobald V of Cham- & 90. Princess Blanche of Navarre
pagne
101. Count Baldwin of Hainault & 102. ("tess Marguerite of Flanders
105. Count Floris Ill of Holland & 106. Princess Ada of Scotland Etc.
Divide the number of each female by 2 to find the number of her child. or multiply any number by 2 to find the mother, then subtract 1 for the father .- C. Jan. 16, 1930.
[ * Correction made by a Spanish friend in Cuba. ]
Many Are Asking Us :
"How can I find out about my family history ?" We will reply to them all right here and save letter writing.
1. Talk with the oldest and best informed members of your family, and write down all you can learn from them. Use the ancestral chart for this, adding dates (of birth, marriage, death, etc. ) whenever you can get them; put other extra matter on the back of the chart. We shall be glad to send you more copies of it on request.
2. Consult the family scrap-book, papers, Bibles, photo-albums, and record all that you can learn from them. See what is up in the attic, in closets, in trunks.
3. Copy all the inscriptions on the family gravestones. Find out where other members of the family are buried and copy these inscriptions also. Always state where each one is buried. The Society will supply you blanks for these cemetery records if you will fill them out and return them.
4. Send us all the vital information that you get, so that we too can be searching.
5. The large public libraries may contain a book on your family. Inquire of the clerk at the desk. If you find such a book, look in the index for names of your ancestors (as far back as you have traced them). If successful, study the arrangement and scheme of numbering in the book so as to follow the lines thence backward. Make a complete list, including wives and dates, and number them just as the book does; take also the title, author and date of publication of the book. Look up as many different lines (those of your female ancestors) in different books as you have time to copy down. Send us a full transcript of what you find.
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ALFRED THE GREAT
6. If your families have lived long in this county, the court house records may contain something important. Ask the Surrogate's Clerk here (or in any county where they have lived) about their wills or estates. For a small fee you can get certified copies of the important papers. The index of deeds and mortgages in the County Clerk's office may give some clue. Always keep ns informed what you are finding; we know how to follow up these elnes and find more.
7. Keep your eye on the old census records and other matter that is published in "The Old Times Corner." This corner is on the editorial page of The Examiner every week, beginning in the issue of November 6, 1929. Cnt out and save each number.
8. Join the Society and by your dues help to maintain the work we are doing in assembling and indexing all these public and personal records. It costs money to print and distribute the necessary blanks, thousands of them, and to provide binding and filing for the returns. We must have your help if the work is to go on .- C. Jan. 23, 1930.
Alfred the Great
is a far call from our local history, but I am finding a number of our eitizens who can claim direct descent from him. Therefore they may be interested to go a little farther back. Asser was Alfred's bishop. confessor and admirer. He sat him down and wrote Alfred's life while that great. man was yet alive; and first of all he carried Alfred's ancestry right back to Adam. For your information (and you may take it or leave it) here is what Bishop Asser claims was the line from Adam to Alfred:
Adam begat Seth. Seth begat Enosh.
Enosh begat Kenan (or ('ainan),
Kenan bogat Mahalalel,
Mahalalel begat Jared,
Jared begat Enoch,
Enoch begat Methuselah,
Methuselah begat Lamech,
Lamech begat Noah;
all of which agrees with the Bible. But then we diverge:
Noah begat Sceaf (or Seth),
Sceaf begat Bedwig.
Bedwig begat Hwala.
Hwala begat Hathra. Hathra begat Itermod.
Itermod begat Heremod.
Heremod begat Sceldwea.
Sceldwea begat Beaw, Beaw begat Taetwa. Taetwa begat Geata, or Geta,
who was long worshipped by the heathen as a god.
Geata begat Godwulf. Godwulf begat Finn,
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OLD TIMES CORNER
Finn begat Frithuwulf.
Frithuwulf begat Frealaf,
Frealaf begat Frithowald, Frithowald begat Woden,
and here again we recognize [the name of] a pagan deity, the one for whom
our Wednesday is named.
Woden begat Beldcag,
Beldeag begat Brond.
Brond begat Freothegar,
Freothegar begat Freawine,
Freawine begat Wig,
Wig begat Gewis. "from whom the Welsh name all that people Gegwis,"
referring to the West Saxons or Gewissae of the Romans.
Gewis begat Esla,
Esla begat Elesa.
Elesa begat Cerdic (the great Saxon general ),
Cerdic begat Creoda,
Creoda begat Cynric.
Cynric begat Ceawlin.
Ceawlin begat Cuthwine.
Cuthwine begat Cutha,
Cutha begat Ceolwald.
Coolwald begat Coonred,
Ceonred begat Ingild and Ine.
Ine, we are told by Asser, was "the famous king of the West Saxons,"
and went to Rome, where he died in honor. His brother,
Ingild begat Eoppa, Eoppa begat Eafa.
Eafa begat Ealhinund for MMemund )
Ealhmund begat Egbert (first king of all England ).
Egbert begat King Acthelwulf,
King Acthelwulf begat King Alfred.
Alfred's Mother
was Osburh or Osburga. "an extremely devout woman, noble in mind. noble also by descent." Her father was Oslac. "famous" cupbearer to King Ethel- wulf, "a Goth by nation, descended from the Goths and Jutes." This Oslar is said to be "of the seed of Stuf and Wihtgar, two brothers and ealdormen," who on receiving the Isle of Wight from King Cerdie and his son Cynric slew what British inhabitants of the island they could find. the others having already been slain or escaped. We gather that the island took its name from the brother Wihtgar, after this bloody conquest .- C. May 15, 1930.
How We Got Surnames
is nicely illustrated by the stories of some of the Dutch families in our region. Unlike the English, who had long used family names, the Dutch in Holland were slow to adopt surnames. In general only the "privileged classes" possessed them. The ordinary person was known. for example, as
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HOW WE GOT SURNAMES
Jan (John) Arentse or Arentsen or rentzoon (son of Aaron), while his sons would be merely Jan and Arent and Stoffel (Christopher) Janse or Jansen (John's sou or finally Johnson in English ), and so on down the line. Of course there was endless duplication and resulting confusion.
In this country, especially after the New Netherlands passed under English control and became New York, the need for surnames was felt. Three things chiefly supplied these: the old world home. the parental name continned permanently, and the occupation. In our familiar Jan de Bakker (John the Baker) we have the third form, from which might conie a Baker family as in England. In the numerous "Vans" we have the village name. In the "sens" and "sons" and the possessive "'s" (such as Rogers in English) we have the parent's name perpetuated.
But there were many odd results. From the village of Schoenderwoert came Rutger son of Jacob. As Rutger Jacobsen van SCHOENNDERWOERT he appears in the American records. One of his sons wrote his name Jacob RUTSEN, (for Rutgersen ) and thus started the Ulster county family of that name. Another wrote it Herman RUTGERS and headed a famous family in Albany some of whose descendants now live in Catskill. But Rutger Jacobsen's brother wrote himself as Teunis Jacobsen VAN WOERT (short for Schoenderwoert ), and from him came a third family prominent in Coxsackie. All of one Holland aneestor Jacob!
Annatje van Rolmers was married in Holland to Albert Andriessen (Andrew's son) known as "Bradt de Noorman" (since he came from Nor- way), and on the stormy voyage to America they had a son whom they appropriately christened "Storm." In this country he wrote his name Storm VAN DER ZEE (storm at sea) and thus came the Vanderzee or Vanduzee famlly. But AAnnatje's daughter Effje (Eve) was surnamed BRADT.
Out of Bogaart village came Gysbert UIT DEN BOGAERT known as the earliest inhabitant of Catskill, but the name later appears also as Wytenbogart, Bogert, and in the Latinized form Bogardns. Similarly we find Kortz (short) and its Latin equivalent Curtius (or Curtis) and a host of others. The Latin form was usually assumed by those who en- tered the ministry, such as Dominie EVERARDUS BOGAARDES (Evert Bogaert) of Nieuw Amsterdam, second husband of the noted Anneke Jans .- C. Nov. 28, 1929.
"Anneke Jans"
was among the earliest settlers of Manhattan Island. "Anneke" is dialectic for Annatje (spelled also Annetje. Anatie, etc., ) meaning little Anna (Hannah) or in the French rendering-Annette.
Although Anneke's present fame rests chiefly on the litigations of her heirs against Trinity Church in New York city, which stands on her farm, she was an outstanding woman in the little village of Nieuw Amsterdam for her physical charm and her brillianey of wit and will, which have passed on to many of her descendants, as well as by her social position through her two husbands, Roelof Jansen van Masterlant and (second) the Dominie. Rev. Everardus Bogardus. Through him she is ancestor of the Bogardus family in our region, and through her eldest daughter Sarah (Roelofse) of the Kiersteds.
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OLD TIMES CORNER
But there are hundreds of other descendants of Anneke in Greene county, bearing different surnames by marriage and perhaps unaware of their descent. It is not enough to know the bare fact or tradition, more- over, but the line should be traced complete and without guesswork. In almost every case this can be done, and we want to hear at once from all who think or know that they are her descendants. There is then the satisfaction of being able to write thus:
Annatie Webber mar. Roelof Jansen and had Sarah Roelofse mar. Hans Kiersted and had
Rachel Kiersted mar. William Teller and had
Margaret Teller mar. Jacobns Stoutenburg and had Jacobus Stoutenburg mar. Josina Teller and had Luke J. Stoutenburg mar. Elizabeth Hoffman and had Josina Stoutenburg mar. Storm Truesdell and had
Elizabeth Truesdell mar. Gilbert Lusk and had Miss Kate E. Lusk of Catskill.
And there you are-just eight generations back to Anneke herself, with dates and everything complete (we do not take space to include them all at this writing ), and all verified by public records .- C. Nor. 28, 1929.
Pronouncing Dutch
names is not so hard if you remember a few simple rules. Double o is long o, as in Van Loon, which we now write Van Loan to represent the proper sound. Our double o sound, as in moon, is spelled oe in the Dutch: for example Van Hoesen, pronounced van hoozen, or the various "hoeks." Double a is our au. as Kaaterskill (Canterskill) and Plaatje and Taatje ( tauchie), the last name being Dutch for Sarah. Je at the end of a word is a diminutive; plaatje is a little plaat or flat; Grietje or Margrietje (com- pare German Gretchen) is little Margaret: and the sound of the j is a softened one, almost a y, so that an i is sometimes written in its place, as Gertje or Gertie ( Gertrude). le is thus our long e. for example Pieter and Saugerties. Uy or ui seems to be variable in sound: we have long i for it in Schuyler and Spusten Duyvil, oo in Schuylkill, and ow in Kyknit and Uyt den Bogaert and Uylen Spiegel (owl's looking-glass). Plain e is almost. an a, and plain n a short oo; and we must remember to distinguish between er (air) and ur (oor) that are so much alike in English, for example berg (berrick or barrach, a hill or mountain) and burg (boorick, a city or borough) also written burgh. Thus we should not sound alike Berger and Burger: note also that the g is hard. never a j sound as it becomes in English before e, i and y. To indicate the pronunciation, Marte Gerritse signed his name van "Bargan" instead of Bergen, when he dealt with the English. Send us your puzzles in Dutch names and we'll try to solve them .- C. Dcc. 5. 1929.
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