History of Saginaw County, Michigan; historical, commercial, biographical, Volume I, Part 31

Author:
Publication date: 1881
Publisher: Chicago : C.C. Chapman & Co.
Number of Pages: 962


USA > Michigan > Saginaw County > History of Saginaw County, Michigan; historical, commercial, biographical, Volume I > Part 31


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THE COUNTY BUILDINGS,


located on the Dexter square of Saginaw City have been referred to in former pages. With the exception of the castellated structure, through which the county offers hospitality to her dangerous classes.


The court-house is an Ionic structure so far as its east and west facades are concerned. Within are two large halls, one on the ground floor known as the Supervisors' room, with a suite of ante-rooms stretching along its northern side, and one on the second floor devoted to the courts. Both are useful, but by no means orna- mental.


The county offices comprise the Clerk's, Treasurer's, Registrar's rooms, and that of the Judge of Probate; all located in a low, French roofed building. There is nothing architecturally beautiful about it, yet the records which it contains are very complete, and the county officials genial, affable gentlemen. Such men and records lend to the county offices an importance which the building under any other circumstances never possesses.


The county jail has many old memories attached to it. It was inaugurated immediately after the organization of the county, and has occupied the same position ever since. The stranger arriving at Saginaw may see a pretentious building, just southwest of the business center of the city. Were it not for the great display of iron bars, he would never dream of its being the county jail; but would at once jump to the conclusion that some barbarous European had come here to re-establish feudalism and had begun his mediæval work by erecting a castle fortress. Notwithstanding its antiquated style of architecture, it is a fine building, and as such is creditable to the Supervisors' Board, under whose order it was constructed.


315


HISTORY OF SAGINAW COUNTY.


COUNTY OFFICERS. The list of county officials from 1835 to 1881 is as follows:


CLERKS.


E. S. Williams. 1835


Wm. McDonald. 1836


H. S. Penoyer. .1858


E. S. Williams.


1837


Wm. Moll. .1858


S. G. Watson. 1837


Geo. Schmidt. 1862


Sam. K. Haring 1838


Heman B. Ferris, deputy 1863


C. S. Palmer. .


1839


Edward Bloedon


1867


Joseph J. Malden. 1840-1


Hiram L. Miller. 1842-3


Wni. L. P. Little. 1844-5


D. B. Richardson, L. A. Hurlbun


Absalom F. Hayden. 1846


Alpheus S. Williams


1843-9


Augustus Gaylord.


1852


Hiram F. Ferris. 1854


Thos. W. Busby, deputy


TREASURERS.


Harvey Williams 1858


Charles S. Palmer .1840-2


Hiram L. Miller 1843-5


G. F. Vanfliet 1871-6


Samuel Gordon 1846-54


J. Schwartz. 1877-8


J. Blackmore. 1854-2


J. C. Valentine. 1879-80


W. J. Barton 1863-4 - Alexander Ferguson 1880-1


SURVEYORS.


James McCormick, jr. 1838


Ira W. La Munyon 1860


Eleazer Jewett. .


1839


Lewis Loeffler ... 1862-4


Alpheus S. Williams


1840


Eleazer Jewett.


1841


Isaac H. Leavenworth .1868


Martin L. Miller. 1842


66


1870


James J. McCormick


1844-8


1872


Abram Butts. .


1850-2


1874


Alexander Alberti.


1854


Harrison Carey.


.1876


Abram Butts. 1856


Lewis Loeffler


1858


Solomon C. Goodale


.1880


SHERIFFS.


.


Elijah N Davenport 1838


Henry Pratt. 1840


James Kenney 1841-2


Henry Miller.


1866


Samuel Gordon. 1844-5


66


1868


Elias i ookstaver.


1850


66


1869


Jerome H. Gotee


1852


66


1870


Austin Rankin.


1870 1872


Reuben W. Andrus


1872


66


66


1856


66 1857


1858


John W. Turner. 1858


1860


66


1878


Capt. - Woodruff. .1861


1862


1880


Jesse Quackenbush 1863


.1864


1882


66


1854


1874


,1875


J B. White.


John F. Adams .1876


1877


66


Charles W Grant. 1855


1853


Jesse Quackenbush. .1865


1866


1867


Jerome H. Gotee 1846-50


66


66


Isaac H. Leavenworth 1878


1871


Byron G. Stark, S. W. Kennedy


and Geo. H. Paine, deputy 1877


Fred. B. Sweet, .1881-82


Hiram S. Penoyer. 1858


Charles D. Little. 1858


Thomas L. Jackson. 1865-6


G. A. Lyon .. .. 1867 70


Darwin A. Pettibone. .1866


Fred B. Sweet, deputy § Fred B. Sweet, Geo. W. Savage,


1879


Henry Miller 1881


316


HISTORY OF SAGINAW COUNTY.


REGISTRARS.


E. S. Williams. .1835


George Schmidt. 1858


Hiram L. Miller. 1838


Geo. Schmidt. 1860


Joseph S. Sharp ·1840-1


Geo. F. Veenfliet. .1860


Horace S. Beach 1842-5


James W. Gotee. .1862


Coe Garratt. 1846-50


James N. Gotee. . 1864


Peter C. Andre. 1850


A. L. Bingham. 1867-69


John Parish, jr.


1854


John Parish.


.1856


Frank Lawrence .1877-80


O. P. Burt, deputy


Herman B. Zwerk. 1881-


CORONERS FROM


1835 TO 1858.


E. Jewett. . 1835


Thomas Rogers


Phineas Spaulding,


1838


George Davis


Peter Lane


Abram Butts


1840


Hugh Mccullough


Julius B. Hart )


Thomas Smith


1842


Hugh Mccullough


Jerome H. Gotee {


Julius B. Hart 1856


E. N. Davenport


1844


Eben. Davis


Jerome H. Gotee


1858


Reuben Fairchild


1846


Joshua Blackmore


1848


Dennis Harrison S


Geo. G. Hess 1854


J. K. Stephens. 1870-


CHAPTER IX.


THE COURTS AND THE BAR.


It is an acknowledged fact that wherever the American pioneer settled he carried the craving for justice with him, which soon was followed by the establishment of courts of justice. It is also true that the administration of the laws in the courts of the early settlements was not carried out with the same dignity as surrounds it to-day; but, thanks to the intelligence which the Revolution engendered, the people simply wanted justice, and got it. There were few lar- gesses bestowed in those olden days; the example of. the fathers of the Republic was not forgotten; men looked only to the honest path and were determined to travel whither it led; and thus justice was dispensed without fear or favor and in a manner creditable to its officers and beneficial to the people.


THE COURTS.


The Circuit Court of Saginaw county was established under an act of the Territorial Legislative Assembly, approved Feb. 12, 1835, which provided that a term of court should be held for the county of Saginaw on Tuesday next after the fourth Monday in June, and on the second Tuesday next after the fourth Monday in January in each year.


Among the first acts of the State Legislature was one dealing with the Circuit Court. It decreed that "the fourth circuit shall be composed of the counties of Oakland, Lapeer, Shiawassee, Gen- esee, Saginaw, Ionia and Kent, and the counties attached thereto, for judicial purposes." . The sessions of the fourth circuit were or- dered to be held at Saginaw on the third Tuesdays of February and July in each year. Subsequently the term was changed to May. In after years a desire to have the spring term of the court held in April was expressed.


Among the bills passed by the Legislature during the winter session of 1858-'9 was one changing the terms of the Supreme Court and reorganizing circuit districts. The spring term of the Supreme Court was authorized to be held on the first Monday of April instead of May.


Saginaw county was detached from the seventh circuit and added to the 10th, which henceforth comprised Saginaw, Gratiot, Isabella, Midland, Iosco, Bay and Alpena.


From 1831 to 1835 justice was meted out by Justices Albert Miller, G. D. Williams, W. F. Mosley, Andrew Ure and E. N.


(317)


318


HISTORY OF SAGINAW COUNTY.


Davenport. This was done in the mildest manner and without all the formalities which now characterize its administration. It is said that even the revenue officers, stationed in the district to pro- hibit the introduction of contraband stores, paid less attention to the duty which they owed to "Uncle Samuel" than to that which they considered due to the little commonwealth of Saginaw. Con- segmently they received rare presents from the captains of Detroit boats and were always far away, when the wily Detroit man sailed up the river to land liis cargo, or, if present, merely took a cursory glance at the ship, pronounced it all right and left the lake cap- tain to pursue his way unchallenged. Neither did the law pre- servers regard those proceedings with any great disfavor. They shared in the hospitality of the revenue officer, and the result was such as might be expected.


The Court journal begins with the chronicle of the October ses- sion of the Circuit Court in and for the county of Saginaw, held at the school-house at Saginaw City, Oct. 24, 1837, Hon. George Morrell, Circuit Judge, with G. D. Williams and P. J. Gardner, Associate Judges.


The first grand jury sworn comprised Eleazer Jewett, Jas. J. Malden, Geo. Davis, Obadiah Crane, Artemus W. Bacon, A. F. Hayden, Eleazer Miller, Sidney S. Campbell, James Frazer, Thomas Simpson, Harvey Williams, Joab Lull, Humphrey McLean, Asa Hill, Duncan Mclellan, Roderick Vaughan, Phineas Spauld- ing, John Brown, Nathaniel Foster and Geo. Youngs.


Edward McCarthy and Anthony R. Swarthout were summoned on this jury, but were not present. Thomas Simpson was appointed foreman, and as such was empowered to subpæna and swear wit- nesses. These preliminaries having been observed, the jury re- tired to consider presentments in charge of Deputy-Sheriff Allen.


The petit jury, sworn the succeeding day, comprised John Simpson, Peter Guillott, J. B. Truesdell, Charles A. Lull, Benj. McLellan, Benj. Cushaway, James McCarthy, Thomas Mccarthy, Stephen Benson, Harvey Rumville and Weston G. Elmer. Albert Miller, John B. Desnoyer and Benway Tromble were summoned, but did not appear.


The first cause brought before the court was that of Humphrey McLean vs. John B. Desnoyer represented by Attorney S. G. Watson; the second was that of John Todd rs. Moses Maynard, jr., in which Attorney Watson represented the plaintiff. On the second day of the term Samuel G. Watson was appointed district attorney pro tem. The causes presented for trial on that day were: Joseph J. Malden vs. Elisha Rice; John C. Tibbetts vs. Nath. Bennett, Gardner D. Williams and E. S. Williams; Isaiah Hall vs. Duncan Mclellan; John Brown vs. same; and Harvey Rum- ville vs. same. Those law cases were simple in character, yea, a few of thiem were continued from session to session until the most ardent lover of legal delay was disposed to retire from the court and forswear all litigation. During the early years there is not one case of a criminal character on record; but as


319


HISTORY OF SAGINAW COUNTY.


the settlement grew older, the criminal presented himself in almost every phase.


THE COUNTY COURT.


Elijah N. Davenport and William Smith were the Judges of the County Court from its inauguration, Feb. 15, 1848, to Dec. 30, 1851.


The last entry on the record of the Saginaw County Court was made Dec. 30, 1851. The last case brought before the court was that of the People vs. Solomon Johnson, which resulted in his discharge. The first case tried before that tribunal was the com- plaint of W. L. P. Little against Judge Davenport, for the illegal seizure of his goods and chattels. Judge W. Smith, second judge of the court, adjourned the hearing of the case from Feb. 15 to March 21, 1848, when, after the examination of the plaintiff, Joshua D. Smith, and Royal W. Jenny, he gave judgment against Judge Davenport for $150, with costs amounting to $3.95. The defendant's only justification was that he acted as treasurer of the township of Saginaw, and in the interest of the people.


THE PROBATE COURT.


Jan. 10, 1836, the first entry was made in the record.book of the Probate Court at Saginaw county. During the first ten years, up to Jan. 10, 1846, just 100 pages of the record were filled, and in those pages is contained the whole probate business of the county for that period of time.


JUDGES OF THE SAGINAW CIRCUIT COURT.


1837-Geo. Morrell, C. J .; G. D. Williams, A. J .; P. G. Gard- ner, A. J.


1839-'40-Charles W. Whipple, C. J .; J. D. Williams, A. J .; P. G. Gardner, A. J.


1841-'2-Charles W. Whipple, C. J .; G. D. Williams, A. J .; Elijah N. Davenport, A. J.


1845-Charles W. Whipple, C. J .; G. D. Williams, A. J .; Andrew Ure, A. J.


Sanford M. Green, C. J., 1849; Josiah Turner, 1857; W. J. F. Woodworth, 1859; Josiah Turner, 1859; W. F. Woodworth, 1860; James Birney, 1861; J. G. Sutherland, 1864; Josiah Turner, 1865; J. G. Sutherland, 1866-'9; Charles R. Brown, 1869; J. G. Sutherland, 1869-'70; Win. F. Mitchell, 1870; John Moore, 1871-'3; S. M. Green, 1873; W. S. Tennant, 1874-'S; Henry Hart, 1878; Wm. S. Tennant, 1878-'80; Dewitt C. Gage, 1880-'1; Chauncey H. Gage, 1881.


JUDGES OF THE PROBATE COURT.


Albert Miller, 1836; Eleazer Jewett, 1845; Luke Wellington, 1861; Otto Roeser, 1865-1881.


320


HISTORY OF SAGINAW COUNTY.


PROSECUTING ATTORNEYS.


Hiram S. Penoyer, 1850-'1; Richard B. Hall, 1852-'3; Jolin Moore, 1854-'7; William L. Webber, 1858-'9; William H. Sweet, 1860-'1; Chauncey H. Gage, 1862-'5; Edwin H. Powers, 1866-'9; Daniel P. Foote, 1870-'1; William Gillett, 1872-'5; George A. Flanders, 1876-'7; Lorenzo T. Durand, 1878-'81.


CIRCUIT COURT COMMISSIONERS.


Charles D. Little, 1852-'3; William L. Webber, 1854-'5; Jabez G. Sutherland, 1856-'7; Augustus S. Gaylord, 1858-'61; Will- iam J. Loveland, 1862-'3; Jolin J. Wheeler, 1864-'5; William A. Lewis, 1866-'9; Thomas M. James, 1870-'5; John J. Heeley, 1872- '5; James B. Peter, 1876-'7; De Forrest Paine, 1876-'7; Frederick Anneke, 1878-'9; John E. Nolan, 1878-'81; Herman Pistorius, 1880-'1.


THE PIONEER BAR.


The pioneer lawyers of the county may be said to include all the members of the profession residing within the county in 1866. Among the members of the profession, who settled here previous to 1858, were Augustine Gaylord, Irving M. Smith, William Gillett, John B. Dillingham, John Moore, E. C. Newell, H. S. Penoyer, W. H. Sweet, C. D Little, John H. Sutherland, W. Benedict, Wm. J. Loveland, W. L. Webber, J. L. F. Fox, C. Wheeler and D. W. C. Gage. Together with those, were C. H. Freeman, S. P. Wright, James Birney, A. C. Maxwell and W. L. Sherman, of Lower Saginaw. From that period until 1866, the influx of legal gentlemen, and additions to the bar from within the county, swelled the list of lawyers. Messrs. Brown, James, Clark, Camp, Gamble, Perkins, Hoyt, Sturtevant, Button, Harvey Joslin, E. H. Powers, Lewis, Wisner, Herring, Flanders, Thompson, Brousseau, James Clark, Cross, F. L. Eaton, Hanchett, Miller, Cook and Foote, are names well and favorably known to the people since 1866.


THE PRESENT BAR.


Names of the lawyers of the county in 1881 are as fol- lows : L. T. Durand, James W. Clark, William A. Clark, Wm. A. Clark, jr., Frederick L. Eaton, Dan. P. Foote, Benton Han- chett, Albert Trask, Gardner K. Grout, William H. Sweet, Gil- bert M. Stark, N. S. Wood, Eugene M. Joslin, H. Pistorius, Frederick E. Smith, Byron G. Stark, Thomas M. James, De Forest Paine, Oscar H. Jannasch, C. Stuart Draper, C. H. Camp, Chaun- cey H. Gage, L. C. Holden & Kendrich, William J. Loveland, Daniel W. Perkins, Harlan P. Smith, E. Wilber, William L. Web- ber, Chauncey W. Wisner, Geo. B. Brooks, Wheeler & McKnight,


321


HISTORY OF SAGINAW COUNTY.


Oscar F. Wisner, W. R. Starr, H. H. Hoyt, Seth G. Huckins, James B. Peter, Bradley M. Thompson, Samuel M. Porter, Isaac Delano, John H. McDonald, Heman B. Ferris, Jno. E. Nolan, Frank E. Emerick, Cromwell Galpin, Michael Brennan, John McArthur, S. G. Higgins, Timothy E. Tarsney, George W. Wead- ock, I. A. Edget, W. G. Gage, H. Miller, Hanlan P. Smith, George A. Flanders, George Brucker, H. Moore, W. S. Tennant, D. W. C. Gage. John T. Hall and Byron L. Ransford, connected with the profession until recently, have removed. In the pages devoted to biography sketches of many of these gentle- men are given.


CHAPTER X.


POLITICAL.


The interest taken in political inatters by the people of Saginaw county is deep indeed. Their principles are so well set that neither time nor change seems to affect them; so that he who was a Whig in his earlier years is generally found in the ranks of the Republi- can party of the present time, and he who was a Democrat thien remains one still. There is, however, a tendency manifested to cast away tlie tyranny of party for the privilege of an untrammeled vote for tlie truest citizen. They do this, and, while acknowledg- ing the great benefits conferred upon the country by the two great parties who claim to be the President-makers, yet they cannot overlook tlie magnitude of the abuses which have entwined them- selves with the present system and contribute to lessen that great name which should cling to the greatest of governments.


The followers of party in this county have not been silent when the commonwealth needed reforms; they have scanned the actions of legislators with jealous eye, and rewarded or punished just in such measure as justice pointeth, and thus secured a fair repre- sentation in the councils of the Republic, as well as in these of the State. Nativeism, sectionalism, know-nothingism, and demonism or religionism in politics appear to be on the margin of the grave- some of the vices already there; but enough remains to cause some little disunion, and so destroy what would be otherwise a magnifi- cent solidarity of public interests. Mercy, Justice and Patriotism require every corner of the land for tenancy, so that sectionalism and all its concomitant vices must yield-must give place to what is good and noble, and let peace rule on forever.


During the first few years of the county's history party lines were not acknowledged, nor conventions held, nor buncombe of any kind indulged in. The first settlers were attached to the Jack- son school of politicians. £ They saw in the general one who held the Constitution of the United States above all else. When in 1832 South Carolina assumed the right to nullify the laws of the United States, and to oppose the collection of the revenue, Gen. Jackson, then President, acted, with his usual decision, to up- hold the Union. He immediately ordered troops to South Carolina, sent explicit instructions to the Collector of Charleston to perform his duty, and notified Calhoun that he would be arrested on com- mission of the first treasonable act. This action, togetlier with the terms of his proclamation, cemented, as it were, all political parties under one leader, and all ready to subscribe to his political belief, which may be learned from the following extract:


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1


323


HISTORY OF SAGINAW COUNTY.


" I consider, then, the power to annul a law of the United States incompatible with the existence of the Union, contradicted expressly by the letter of the Constitution, unauthorized by its spirit. incon- sistent with every principle on which it was founded, and destructive of the great object for which it was formed. To say that any State may at pleasure secede from the Union is to say that the United States are not a nation, because it would be a solecism to contend that any part of the nation mnight dissolve its connection with the other part, to their injury or ruin, without committing any offense. * The States severally have not retained their en- tire sovereignty. It has been shown that in becoming parts of a nation they surrendered many of their essential parts of sover eignty. The right to make treaties, declare war, levy taxes, exer cise exclusive judicial and legislative powers, were all of them functions of sovereign power. . The States, then, for all of these important purposes, were no longer sovereign. * * % The duty imposed on me by the Constitution, to take care that the laws be faitlifnlly executed, shall be performed to the extent of the powers vested in me by law."


In those olden times an honest man was chosen on his merits, and asked to represent this country, and not himself, in the halls of the legislature, in the supervisors' court of Oakland, and again in the board of this county. A reference to the election returns subscribed will prove this statement precise in every particular. Years rolled on and still party lines remained unobserved. In 1836 there was an apparent tendeney to party politics, but the effort was comparatively a weak one. Two years later, in 1838, the abolitionist doctrine was received with favor on one side and with suspicion on the other. In 1840 " Abolition " and " Liberty " were the watchwords of the country, and four years later, the Val- ley sent forward a candidate for the Presidency, as the nominee of tlie Liberty party. James G. Birney, 'a native of Danville, Ky., who settled here in 1841, was sent into the field of political battles, to contest it with Henry Clay on one side and James K. Polk on the other. Birney was honest, enthusiastic and honorable. In this matter he lived before his time, and as a result did not become an occupant of the Presidential chair. His party acqniesced in the doctrine, laid down at that memorable meeting, held " under the oaks " at Jackson in 1854, and the name and fame of the "Sons of Liberty " were henceforth embosomed in that party.


The American party, organized immediately afterward, soon passed away. In this county, its impracticable, unjust and un- holy principles were stigmatized, and to the credit of the people, may it be said, entirely ignored. It was no more American in principle than the tea tax was. The contest between the humble Abraham Lincoln and the noted Steplien A. Douglas in 1860 was characteristically interesting. Here it was made a trial of power between Democrats and Republicans.


324


HISTORY OF SAGINAW COUNTY.


The election of Hon. T. Jerome as Representative in 1856 was one of the most stirring political contests held here. He was an opponent of the proposed measure to organize a portion of this county into a new county by the naine of Bay, and consequently was opposed by Geo. Lord. Mr. Jerome was elected by a large majority. He opposed separation earnestly, but finally agreed with the majority in passing a bill authorizing the organization of Bay county, which was approved Feb. 17, 1857. The act was submitted to the people. In the district now comprising Bay county the number of votes in favor of separate organization was 204, against 14 dissents, but the unanimous vote of the people of Saginaw county, as now known, opposed the measure. Under the advice of C. H. Freeman the people of Bay county ignored one section of the act, which gave power to the people of Saginaw to vote on the question, and recognized their own voice in the matter. An election of county officials was held in June, 1857, whichi was followed by a series of troubles, all resulting in bringing the mat- ter before the Supreme Court. The case was laid before the court by Wm. M. Fenton, a lawyer of Flint, acting under the advice of C. H. Freeman, of Bay City. Hon. John Moore, of Saginaw, op- posed the idea of organization, but the rights of the people of the northern county were sustained, and the organization of the county declared to be a matter of fact.


The following communication, addressed to C. H. Freeman, Prosecuting Attorney of Bay county, Mich., under date of Detroit, June 11, 1858, contains the opinion of Atty. Gen. J. M. Howard, on the organization of the county and the jurisdiction of the courts: " Your two letters, one of the 5th and the other of the 7th inst., are at hand.


"1. My opinion is that by Act No. 130 of the Session Laws of 1857, Iosco county was an organized county from and after the 17th of May, 1857, when that act took effect, and that until the county officers were chosen, as provided in section 2 of the act, it was for judicial purposes attached to Bay county, under section 15 of Act 117 for the organization of the latter county, the last named act being ordered to take effect on the day of its approval (Feb. 17, 1857).


"2. I do not think these two acts inconsistent, nor, consequently, that Act 171 repeals Act 130, but that they can well stand together.


"3. It is evident that in reorganizing thie judicial circuits last winter, the Legislature did not recognize the fact that Bay county was duly organized for judicial purposes, but treated the territory of which it is composed as belonging to Saginaw, Midland and Are- nac; and when they provide, in section 1st, that the seventhi circuit shall be composed of the counties of Livingston, Shiawassee, Gen- esee, Lapeer, Tuscola, and Saginaw, they mean Saginaw as it was bounded before the passage of Act No. 171 of 1857; and that when they provide that the tentli circuit shall be composed of the coun- ties of Gratiot, Isabella, Midland, Iosco and Alpena, they mean Midland as it was before the same act took effect. The county of


325


HISTORY OF SAGINAW COUNTY.


Arenac had been merged in Bay county; and yet they attach Are- nac (comprising the northern and larger part of Bay county) to Midland county for judicial and municipal purposes. Thus the part of Bay county formerly lying in Saginaw county is left in the seventh circuit; while the whole of Midland and Arenac counties, as formerly defined, are included in the tenth circuit.


"That the whole of the old Arenac county and that part of Mid- land falling within the limits of Bay county, are regularly within the jurisdiction of the circuit judge of the tenth circuit, I have no doubt, because by the terms of the act of 1858, the portions of ter- ritory are plainly therein included; and as they both are attached to Midland county for judicial purposes, I see no difficulty in the judge treating them as a part of that county.


"As to that part of Saginaw county which now falls within the limits of Bay county, my opinion is that for all the purposes con- nected with the Circuit Court, it must be treated as belonging to Saginaw county and as falling within the seventh circuit; but for all other purposes as a part of Bay county. This view of the question may lead to some embarrassments, but none that are seri- ous, so far as I can foresee.




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