USA > New York > Ecclesiastical records, state of New York, Volume VI > Part 49
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OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
4105 1767
tion to the Calling of an English Minister that then remained was, how he should be supported, the estates and Revenues of the Church being bound for the mainte- nance of the Ministers preaching in Dutch, & many being of Opinion that it would be unjust to appropriate any Part of the Revenue to the Support of an English Minister, the Consistory then resolved on such Call, provided the Petitioners could raise his Maintenance by private Subscription, and that the Minister so to be called, should not have any other Security for his Salary than the said Subscription List- A subscription was accordingly set on Foot, and subscribed by two hundred and forty Persons, whereof one hundred & thirty were Male Members in Communion-The Sum subscribed amounted to one hundred and twenty five Pounds per Annum more, than was wanted to pay the Salary intended for the English Minister.
Having proceeded thus far, the Consistory thought it further prudent to apply to the Classis of Amsterdam ; who, although they have no Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction in His Majesty's Dominions, yet, as our Church was first erected under their Juris- diction, it has been made a practice to take their Opinion and Advice upon disputed matters, which has been generally esteemed decisive, though by no means compul- sory. The Consistory explained to them their design of calling an English Minister and upon what Motives. Mr. Hardenbrook & his Party who were then pretty con- siderable for numbers, amounting in the whole to Eighty three men with the addition of their Wives and Daughters, protested against the Proceedings of the Consistory, (here it is to be observed that the Protest was wrote by Mr. Stoutenburgh and all the Names subscribed in his own hand writing and some of the same Persons twice mentioned, it never appeared to the Consistory, that Mr. Stoutenburgh had any Directions from the People, whose names he put down & some of them denied that they ever had given him any) ; and complained to the Classis aforesaid, setting forth their Objections in the fullest manner, the Classis after mature Consideration approved of the Measure of Calling an English Minister, and highly commended the Consistory for their prudence, in taking so proper a step for the Preservation of the Church, and at the same time wrote Mr. Hardenbrook, Mr. Stoutenburgh and others, that their Objections were ill founded, and recommended to them brotherly Love and a due Submission to the Consistory ; this Letter, the Persons to whom it was directed, to the Number of thirteen, thought it most for their purpose to keep secret-they had not Candour enough to communicate it to the Party in General ; If His Excellency & the honourable Board would be pleased to peruse it, the opinion of the Classis will therein fully appear to have been, that the Party is as ignorant as obstinate, the last of which is usually the Consequence of the first ; Mr. Stouten- burg can doubtless produce the Letter if he sees fit.
It was not 'till after all these Precautions, that an English Minister was called- The call was sent to Holland for Mr. Laidlie, in Consequence of which, he was regularly qualified for our Church, by the Classis of Amsterdam, and came over- His salary depended upon the Subscription List only, and what the Effects have been is abundantly evident, from the numbers of our Congregation who attend his preach- ing ; we verily believe they are three times as many, as attend the Dutch Service, which fully evinces the Prudence of the Measure.
All this could not satisfy Mr. Hardenbrook & his Party, who insisted, that they had a right to vote in the Election of Church officers, which was refused them ; for this refusal, they commenced a suit in the Supreme Court of this Colony, against twelve of the Consistory, insisting that on a legal Construction of the Charter, not only the Consistory, but the Members of the Church, were intitled to give their voices at such Election ; this Point, was on a Special Verdict, solemnly argued by Counsel, and after mature Consideration, adjudged against them by Court. [See Ap. 26, 1765.]
By this suit, we were put to very considerable Expence, and we are credibly informed, that they also feed Counsel in England for advice, who gave their opinions against their Pretensions ; whether this be true or not, they know best, and after all, it seems they cannot rest contented, without troubling Your Excellency, and the honourable Board, with fresh Complaints. We must beg the farther Patience of Your Excellency & the Honourable Board, while we make a few observations on the Articles of Complaint by them exhibited.
As to the first Article [July 6, 1767] they say, that the 51st Article [see Oct. 15-18, 1771] of the Constitution of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church does not admit of two languages under one Consistory. This is a wrong Representation,
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the sald Article was framed to accommodate the French Refugees, who fled from France to Holland; who not understanding the Dutch Language were therefore allowed to have Consistories and Classes of their own ; not because It was unlawful, but because they understood not the Dutch, and this Article respects that particular Case only.
IIndly. It is alledged, that the S6th Article of the sald Constitution says "that although the Benefit of the Church should require it, no alteration therein should be made ;" This is against common sense ;- the Article says the direct contrary, that if the Interest of the Church should require it, alterations may and ought to be made, but we have made no alterations in the Constitution.
IlIrdly. No Minister has been forced into the Church against the Will of the Congregation, this may appear fully from the Subscription List for Mr. Laldlie's Salary, which as is abovesald, is subscribed by two hundred and forty Persons, one hundred and thirty of whom were Maie Communicants; and here we cannot heip observing, that if only one fourth Part of the Congregation. not understanding Dutch, had desired a Minister should be called to preach in English, we should have thought It our Duty to grant their Request.
IVth. and Vth. The Manor of Fordham before It was sold, was under Mr. Abel Hardenbrooks management, with Respect to the collecting the Rents, what his Emoluments were, he knows best ; the Church received little better than one hun- dred Pounds per annum for all the Rents; it was therefore sold, the greatest Part of the Money Is Invested in real Securities ;- the Remainder Is out on good personai Securitles :- the Income now Is more than five hundred pounds per Annum ;- the Consistory have been always watchful to purchase real Estates, and have bid for several, but could not purchase any as yet, at what they conceived the Value ; neither the Complainants, nor their Party, have suffered on this account. The Income of the Real Estate left to the Church by Mr. Harperding, has been applied agreeable to the intention of the Testator, and the Revenues of that Estate are annually Increasing.
The Vith Article alledges, that catechising in the Dutch Language was forbid, by one of the Eiders, as also by Mr. Laidlie : this is not true, and if It was, the Com- piainants must know, that no one member of our Consistory has a right to forbld any Thing. Mr. Leydecker never was appointed by the Consistory to Catechise In our Congregation, and Is therefore, not qualified ; though one Adrian Van der Sman, was so appointed : but on finding Ilim a man of a very immoral Behaviour, having forged the Hand Writing of the Reverend Mr. Ritzema and others, wrote and sub- scribed Letters directed to the Synod of North Holland, recommending himself as a proper Person for the Ministry, by which the Reverend Mr. Ritzema at that Time suffered much In his Character, on the Discovery of this Fact the Consistory thought proper to discharge him from that office, and immediately appointed another in his stead ; since which he has been upheld and supported by Mr. Hardenbrook's Party.
In answer to the WHIth Article: that the Dutch School is not taken care of, to the Ruin of the Dutch Education, we say. that we have at present and for twelve years last past, have employed Mr. Whelp, who was sent for to Holland as a School Master & Catechist ; he keeps a School constantly open receives payment from us for teaching the poor Children of the Congregation to the number of thirty, which num- ber never was compieated; he is a person very well qualified to catechise & teach School, and we pay him a very handsome salary for his service, Insomuch that his piace Is coveted by others. It has been Insinnated to some of our Congregation, that if Mr. Van der Sman could be restored as a Catechist and Mr. Stoutenburgh have Mr. Whelp's Piace, all would be well,-The first cannot be done, from the character above given ; the latter cannot In Honor be agreed to, as Mr. Whelp is beyond all Comparison, better qualified, and was encouraged to come from Holland by the then ruling Consistory.
To the VIlIth Article we say, that as it was thought proper to call an English Minister, it must be presumed, that he was to preach in one of the Churches ; the Consistory thought proper that English should be preached, only once every Lord's Day in the usual Time of Divine Service in one of the Churches, and directed that to be, in the new Church. In the old Church Engilsh is not preached at all, but two Dutch Sermons every Sabbath. and one Dutch Sermon in the New : so that there are three Dutch Sermons to one In English, on the usual time although the English Hearers are three to one at least
OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
4107 1767
So unreasonable are those People, that not even this will satisfy ; all the Seats this Party can pretend to have any right to in the New Church did not amount to ten Pews (neither Mr. Van Wagenen nor Mr. Stoutenburgh have any seats there ; ) We therefore humbly conceive it very unreasonable; that they should attempt to direct the Consistory on that Pretence, and if their Party chuse to take back their Purchase money (if any has been paid) it shall be returned them with as much more.
The Sacrament of the Lord's Supper is administered, as it always was in our Church ; in the Forenoon Mr. Laidlie preaches in the New Church ;- many more Communicants attend that divine Ordinance under his Administration, as he preaches English, than under Dutch preaching, this makes it more proper that he should attend that Ordinance in the New Church ; the Dutch Ministers attend the same Ordinance in the Old Church without interruption, and we do not believe, that the Complainants will take upon themselves to say, that seats are wanting there, were they inclined to be present.
To the IXth Article we answer, that as both Churches belong to one Congrega- tion, the Consistory of that Congregation have doubtless the sole Direction of both. It is a very great Instance of their want of Candour, to call the Consistory the English' Party ; We are of no Party, but act, as far as we are able to judge for the good of the whole : We are all members in full Communion with all our Ministers ;- Are all of Dutch Families and had our religious Education in the Dutch Language ; and it may not be improper to observe, that of Sixteen Members, which Constitute our Consistory at present (exclusive of the Ministers) only six of them signed the Petition for an English Minister, and one of the remaining ten, signed with the discontented People, the other nine were neuter.
We further beg leave to inform your Excellency and the Honorable Board that Mr. Stoutenburgh, having made it his business to propagate about Town, that his Party was most numerous, and that he would show it at the next Election of Church officers in October last (the Law Suit respecting the Right of voting being not then determined) the Consistory for the satisfaction of the Publick, resolved to give him an opportunity to try what he could make of it, the Result was, that one hundred and fifty six Communicants appeared to join with the Consistory, a List of which taken and attested by two Publick Notaries we herewith deliver. The number that attended him, was not as we believe fifty, if there were more, he might make it appear, their names were not taken down by the Notaries, as they were glad to slip away, being ashamed of the Smallness of their numbers.
Mr. Stoutenburg being influenced by self interested Motives & urged on by others keeps up the Dispute, which, as we are informed, is his Chief Support, it is therefore very difficult for him to determine to desist, and mind his proper calling this affair has employed him upward of five years.
With respect to forbidding them the Sacraments, we must observe that it is the Custom of our Church for the Ministers and Elders, by Order of the Consistory to go to the House of the Communicants, to invite them to communicate, -- In the Course of these Visitations it has happened, that some of the Members of the Church told the Ministers and Elders, that they would not acknowledge the Consis- tory as lawful ; pretending that as the vote of the Members were refused in the Election of the Church officers, that therefore the Consistory was not a lawful Consistory, upon which the impropriety of their attending was mentioned to them, that as the divine Ordinance must in our Church be administered under the inspec- tion of the Elders & they would not acknowledge the Elders as such, it could not in their conception of the Matter, be regularly administered, but we deny that any one has been forbid the use of the Sacraments, altho' many of them have deserved it.
To the Xth Article we say, that it is very difficult to comprehend, what is meant, by forcing them to acknowledge Mr. Laidlie to be their lawful Teacher, and to declare that he must and shall communicate with the Dutch-Mr. Laidlie is not forced upon any person-No Body goes to hear Him but such as chuse it, and he communicates with none, but such as voluntarily come to communicate with him.
It is farther said, that if Mr. Laidlie is in Communion with the Dutch, he is intitled to the Revenues of the Dutch Ministers, we do not understand that the Communicating with the Dutch, can give him any more Right to the Revenues of the Dutch Ministers, than any other Person that communicates with the Dutch ; the Temporalities are not bound for his salary, but he is paid by a voluntary sub- scription, as has been already explained.
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If the Complainants would produce the Letter, they received from the Reverend Classis of Amsterdam, a full Answer to this Point will therein be seen ;- The Dutch Hearers pay nothing, either for Minister or Pew Rent; the English Hearers at the Sole expense of English Preaching ; every Member of the Church goes to hear whom he pleases, and attends the Sacraments where he pleases, without any Constraint whatever, and the Complainants may rest satisfied that no one desires to compel them to acknowledge Mr. Laidlie, or to communicate with him-they are left entirely at their liberty, and it is of no Consequence to us whether they do or not- They have taken great pains to rend the Church to pieces, but happily, they have not succeeded ; their Party is continually decreasing, and it is now reduced to an inconsiderable number of Inconsiderable People, and the Congregation is in as flourishing a Condition as ever it was.
Our Proceedings have been as far as we know exactly conformable to the Rules of our Church, and agreeable to the Sence of the Classis of Amsterdam, and the Event of a tedious & expensive Law Suit evinces that nothing has been done by us contrary to the Laws of the Country ; from all which we humbly conceive, It will appear to Your Excellency and his Honourable Board of Council, that the sald Complainants are altogether vexatious and without Foundation.
The Consistory have all due Confidence In the Wisdom, Justice, and Prudence of the Government and are with Great Respect for His Excellency and the Honorable Board, his & their most obedient Ilumble Servants
By Order of the Consistory Joan. Ritzema, p. t. Praeses. New York 23 September 1767.
November 11, 1767. Read In Council, and Order made dismissing the Petition.
- Doc. Illst. N. Y. Vol. 111. pp. 310-314.
THE CLASSIS OF AMSTERDAM TO THE MEMBERS OF THE REV. CON- SISTORY OF NEW YORK, NOV. 28, 1767. VOL. 31, P. 291. No. 176.
Rev. Sirs and Brethren :-
In reply to your letter of Feb. 18, 1767, and signed by thirteen members, (this answer) serves: That while we are heartlly grleved at all discords, disputes and offences which may arlse in the churches, and which are extremely Injurlous and destructive, It Is nevertheless greatly to our joy and comfort to learn that offences are ceasing, and that common love and peace are relgning In their stead; for there will God be present, with his spirit of love and peace.
We have reason to hope, through the declarations of Revs. Ritzema, Laidlle and De Ronde, that at length all discords and disputes will have been taken away, and that mutual peace, love, and confidence may soon be restored. Then, under the falthful and blessed services of pastors and teachers the church may be edified and the consolations of the Holy Ghost multiplied.
We thank you for the news that the lawsult brought against the Consistory has resulted In thelr favor, and we congratulate you thereupon. We hope that this may lead to many desirable and blessed results.
Very agreeable also was It for us to learn that the work of the Lord was pros- pering under the Ministry of Rev. Laldlle. We pray for increased illumination for him, and blessing on his efforts, as well as In behalf of the other ministers; and that the Kingdom of God and of Christ may continually be expanded more and more in your regions, and that many may be added to the church of such as shall be saved. We also wish great success and blessing upon you In connection with your bullding of a third church edifice. May the Lord abide with you thereln by hls word and Spirit.
Further worthy and beloved brethren In the Lord, may the grace of the Lord and his Spirit be with you steadfast, Immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, and in his service, and make you see and know that your labor Is not In valn In the Lord.
A. Becol, Dep. Praeses. W'm. Koolhaas, Dep. Scriba.
Amsterdam.
Nov. 28, 1767.
OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
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1767
THE CLASSIS OF AMSTERDAM TO THE REVS. FRYENMOET KOK AND RYSDYK, Nov. 28, 1767. VOL. 31, P. 293. No. 177.
Worthy Sirs and Brethren :-
(We learn) from your account, of the many and distressing discords and disputes which so greatly tear asunder the Church of God in your country ; yea, which threaten entirely to destroy it, if God does not prevent. Nevertheless, we indulge in some hope that such disputes may gradually lessen, asperities being softened. May God grant that this may be the case, and that ere long such things may altogether cease. How much would we rejoice, if we could learn that the brethren, with united hearts and strength, were advancing the work of the Lord, serving him in his holy Kingdom, with all their power.
We have received a church-call, regularly drawn up, for the procuring and calling of a minister for the churches in the Flats and Red Hook, and in which we find very favorable and desirable terms offered. We are doing our best in this business, and will continue to use every opportunity to find a pastor for that field as soon as possible. With this object in view, we shall place an advertisement in the Monthly Journal, with mention of the favorable conditions.
In regard to the proposition which you make to the Classis for their considera- tion, viz., Whether it would not be useful that you should have the privilege of ordaining, with the laying on of hands, the candidates examined in the Classis of Amsterdam, or elsewhere, and sent over for service in your churches-we answer : The Rev. Classis is gladly willing, at every proper opportunity, to give renewed and special proofs of their tried faith and good disposition toward your churches, as you declare this concession would be considered; yet they cannot very well grant this request. All changes or novelties in general, as looked at beforehand, are necessarily of uncertain and doubtful result; and may frequently, although good may be promised from them, have evil consequences. We doubt very much also, whether this concession would produce such results, as you flatter yourselves it would, viz., in stopping the evil speech of independents. You yourselves seem not to have a very sanguine hope of the good effect of such a change. Let us allow the matter, therefore, to remain in statu quo, and let us hope that ill-tempered persons may gradually become quiet, and cease their clamors.
With hearty wishes for the blessings of the All-Sufficient One, upon yourselves, your sacred ministry and the congregation entrusted to your care, and that the spirit of submissive wisdom, love and peace may live and reign among pastors, and in the Church, we subscribe ourselves, etc., etc.
A. Becol, Dep. Praeses. Wm. Koolhaas, Dep. Scriba.
Amsterdam, Nov. 28, 1767.
THE CLASSIS OF AMSTERDAM TO THE REV. CONVENTUS AT KINGSTON, Nov. 28, 1767.
Rev. Sirs, Much-beloved Brethren :-
From your letter of Feb. 5, 1767, we have learned that you have done your utmost, employing every means to save Rev. Meyer, but that all is found to be in vain. We are grieved at his obstinacy, and the expressions in his letter to you displease us greatly. As the case now appears to us, after having gone to such extremes, we cannot imagine what more can be done to save him. We approve, therefore, of his removal from his congregation. We hope that this measure, so reluctantly adopted, may tend to the removal of offences, and to the promotion of union, love and peace in the churches of our Lord.
We shall make every effort to procure another minister in his stead, and to this end, we will place an advertisement in the Journal. We wish, moreover, that the most precious of the Lord's blessings may rest upon you. And may the good
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pleasure of the Lord. to the manifold benefit of his Church, and the extension of Jesus' Kingdom, prosper through your instrumentality. May offences be avoided, and truth, love and peace flourish in your churches.
-
(Signed as above.)
Amsterdam, Nov. 28. 1767.
SIR WM. JOHNSON TO THE EARL OF SHELBURNE.
Missionaries to the Indians. Bishop in America. Johnson Haff, December 3, 1767.
From what has been repeated in former letters and from the many reports transmitted on Indian Affairs concerning the management of these people, I hope will evidently appear what are the powers necessary to be given to the Depart- ment for the purposes of the Crown and the Public advantage and therefore it will be unnecessary to repeat them, or to dwell longer upon the want of settling these important points and the niarming prospect of our affairs on that Account. I have therefore only to repeat that the promoting Religion amongst them is by no means to be neglected, and that the establishment of Missionarles under proper Authority, as promised and daily expected by the Indians (many of whom educated in the principles of the Church of England are greatly disgusted at our neglects) would have very happy effects. As I understand an Episcopato is now soilcited for by the National Clergy, and thelr Congregations, I am of opinion if thelr appli- cation meets with the success and attention which It appears to deserve that such an Establishment besides Its advantages to ye National Church and its Members. wili tend in the most effectual manner to promote Religion amongst the Indians under a proper Church Government, and the Ausplees of n Resident Dignified Clergyman In America.
Your Lordships Most obedient and most bumble Servant,
W. Johnson. Col. Does, N. Y. vii, pp. 997, 1002, 1003.
CHURCH OF NEW YORK. Cost of the Psalm Book.
New York, Dec. 17th, 1767.
Consistory held after calling on God's name.
The account for the printing of the Psaim book ete., was brought in and found in all to amount to £1074: 9: $16; hut the books, reckoned at 10 shillings cach for hound coples, would inke, for 2000 coples £1000 .; so that there Is an arrear of £74: 9: 5%. The Consistory resolved to pay that sum and take for it the plates which were ordered from Holland, to be kept for another occasion.
Stiff that the poor may not be destitute of coples, the gentlemen entrusted with the issue of the book shall record the names of anch, and report the same at the next meeting for further consideration.
Signed etc., J. Ritzoma, p. t. President.
LUTHERAN CHURCH IN NEW YORK CITY .- 1767-1850.
The famous " Oid Dutch (Lutheran) Church," In days of yore located on " Horse and Cart-street," so called from an inn near by, bearing the representation of a horse and cart for a sign. but In latter days on WHilam street, has at last been prostrated before the march of improvement. Its dingy and time-worn walls have
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