USA > Pennsylvania > Colonial records of Pennsylvania, Vol. I > Part 27
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It was carried in the affirmative, by Rob' Turner, Griff. Jones, John Bristow & Wm. Markham (agreeing with the Gover" sense.)
Sam" Carpenter declaring the ground of his being in the negative was not that he was against the thing, & thought it would be & was best so; only because that he thought the Welsh people & People of Philadelphia should have had longer time for making their defence. M'. Yardley of the same minde.
Mr. Bristow brought in the Sheriff's Returne of Ellections for mem- bers to serve in the Prov" Councill and Assembly for the County of Chester. The Secretary offerd the like Returne, made for the County of New Castle: both were read & referred to further Consideration.
A Petition was presented to the Gover' & Councill by Humphrey Morrev, Phill. Richards, phillip James, Will. Lee, for leave to build a wharfe on the side of Delaware River, against ye End of ye Chesnutt street, which was read and some things spoken to it ; But
The further Consideration thereof Referred to the next Sixth day · of this week.
Adjourned to yª 6% day, being ye 29th instant, at 9 of the Clock in the forenoone.
At a meeting of The Councill in the Councill Roome in Philadel- phia the ffirst of The second month, 1689.
PRESENT :
JO" BLACKWELL, Esq'., Gover'.
Grif. Jones, Luke Watson, Joseph Growdon,
Wm. Yardley, Sam" Carpenter, Wm. Markham, Sec".
Barth. Coppock,
The Gover' orde the Entrys of ye Last daye's proceedings in Coun- cill should be read: they were Read accordingly.
The Gover' Directed ye Returne made by ye sheriff of ye County
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of Sussex of members to serve in Provinciall Councill & assembly should be Read.
Wm. Clark & Jo" Hill, members Returned to serve in Provinciall Councill, were directed to withdraw.
Consideration was ffirst had of Wm. Clark's Election, who had served Six years before, wherevpon Sam" Carpenter moved to have that part of ye Charter read weh directs that after ye ffirst seaven years the persons going off should be vncapable of being Chosen againe ffor one year ffollowing, &c.
The same was Read:
And vpon the debate it was resolved, Nemine Contradicente, that yª Returne of Wm. Clark was good, and that there was no Exceptions to be taken against him, but that he subscribing ye obligation of a Pro" Councillor, Should be admitted to take his place: which he subscribed, and was admitted accordingly to sitt in Councill.
Consideration was also had of Jo" Hill. Jos. Growdon desired ye writt Issued for his Election might be read : the same was read, and vpon debate it was resolved that ye Returne of Jo" Hill was good, and that there was no Exceptions to be taken against him. Jos. Growdon, Barth. Coppock, & Wm. Yardley desenting. He was Called in, & subscribeing, took his place in Councill.
Wm. Stockdale being returned to serve ffor ve County of New Castle, vpon the debate it was resolved, nemine Contradicente, that ye Returne was good, & that there was no Exception to be taken against him : he was Called in, and vpon his subscription was admitted to take his place in ye Councill.
John Symcock being returned to serve as a member of Councill ffor ye County of Chester, vpon ye Debate it was resolved, nemine Contradicente, that ye Returne was good and that there was no Ex- ception to be taken against him. He was Called in, & vpon his subscription was admitted to take his place in the Councill.
John Curtis being returned to serve as a member of Councill ffor ye County of Kent, and ve Returne also read, Griff. Jones acquainted ye board y' ye said Curtis had been fformerly accused by some deso- lute persons of treasonable words. Wm. Clark, one of ye Judges ap- poynted on y' occasion, said ye words were not Treasonable, and y' ye Grand Jury did returne ye bill Ignoramus, &c., and so said Griff. Jones. Js. Growden said that Curtis was well reputed in his County, &c .: vpon debate it was resolved (nemine Contradicente) that there was no ground of Exception against him. He was Called in, and vpon his subscription admitted to take his place in ye Councill.
Jo" Eckley was Returned by ve Sheriff to serve as a member of Prov" Councill ffor ve County of Philadelphia, but with submission to ve board ffor that ffifty or sixty welsh men who were not of that County had joyned themselves in ye Vote, ye Gover' desired ye Councill's se- rious Consideration touching that Returne, and ffor their ffuller in- formation, directed y' ye Entrys of je Councill's proceedings in their debate touching ye bounds and lines between ye County of Phila- delphia & Chester, viz : on ye 25h & 26" days of ye Last month, should be read. They were Read ; And vpon debate it was Resolved
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y' ye Election of Jo" Eckley to be a member of Prov" Councill for Philadelphia County, ffor ye Reasons advertised in ye Returns thereof, given by ye sheriff, was not a good election, according to ye Charter and Rules therein in that behalfe, Sam" Carpenter, Jos. Growdon, Wm. Yardley & Wm. Stockdale only dissenting.
The Gover' therevpon declared he would Speedily Issue out a new writt ffor Chuseing not only ffor Jo" Eckley, but for Sam" Richardson, to Supply his place for ye Remainder of his time, he haveing misde- meaned himselfe in Councill. Jos. Growdon moved that ye Returne of Thomas Loyd ffor to serve as a member of Prov" Councill ffor ye County of Bucks might be Considered : ye Gover' said it was late and y' he had some thing to say ag' it, web he would declare to them at next sitting, web was appoynted ye next day, viz: ye 2ª of ye 24 month, at 9 of ye Clock, and adjorned accordingly.
At a Councill in ye Councill Roome at Philadelphia ye second day of ye second month, 1689.
PRESENT:
JO" BLACKWELL, Esq"., Gover".
Griff. Jones, Jo" Symcock,
Wm. Yardly,
Jos. Growdon, Barth. Coppock,
Jo" Curtis,
Luke Watson, Wm. Clark, Jo" Bristow,
Jo" Hill, Sam" Carpenter,
WVm. Markham, Sec".
Wm. Stockdale,
The Gover' directed that ye Entrys of yesterday's proceedings of ve Councill should be Read : they were Read : ye Gover acquainted ye board he should begin with y' matter weh was Last mentioned; wch was to acquaint them w" what he had to say against ye admitting ye Returne of Thomas Lloyd to set as a member of Prov" Councill ffor ye County of Bucks, and made a Large discourse of ye powers granted him by ye Proprio" Commission fformerly granted to ye Provin" Coun- cill and Comm" of State, to weh there was Reference made by his said Commission.
And perticularly setting fforth how the said Thomas Lloyd had by his miscarriage in sundry respects, obstructed his, ye said Gover", pro- ceedings in y Discharge of his Trust. And haveing delivered in a paper Conteyning the heads of Severall articles of high misdemeanors, Crimes and offences, Where with he Charged ye said Thomas Lloyd, in ye name of ve Proprietor & Cheiff Gover", (wch he directed Should be Read, and was read accordingly, ) He proposed a Committee might be appoynted ffor Considering ye same, &c., ffor preparing and makeing ready in Due fforme, articles to be prossecuted and proved against ye said Thomas Lloyd, and that therevpon he might be brought to a tryall, to be managed in ye Proprietor's name. Joseph Growdon moved that Sam" Richardson might be admitted to Sitt and act as a member of Councill ffor ye County of Philadelphia.
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The Gover' told him his misbehaviour had been such as had Ex- cluded him, & that he had given Direction for a writt ffor a new Election of one in his Stead : he, ye said Joseph Growdon, moved also y' ye vote that had past yesterday touching ye Returne of ye Election made by ye Sheriff of ye County of Philadelphia, might be past by ye Ballott. The Gover' told him it Could not be admitted; it was yes- terday past by ye vote as had been vsuall, & 'twas affirmed ye ballot- ting box had never been made vse off on any such occasion, and that he saw no reason to make vse of it in that Case.
Adjorned till To morrow morning, 9 of ye Clock.
At a meeting of the Councill in the Councill roome in Philadelphia, the 3ª day of the 24 month, 1689.
PRESENT:
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'., Gover'.
Jnº Symcock, Jnº Hill,
Sam" Carpenter,
Jos. Growdon,
John Curtis, Griff. Jones,
Jnº Bristow,
Wm. Stockdale,
Luke Watson,
Wm. Yardly,
Barth. Coppock,
Wm. Markham, Sec".
Wm. Clark,
The Gover' directed the last Entry should be Read; they were Read accordingly.
The Gover' was entering upon a discourse touching the beads of the articles of charge exhibited against Tho. Lloyd, But whilest he was speaking Sam" Richardson, a late member of Councill, came into ye Councill roome and sate downe at ye table.
The Gover" askd him if he had any thing to say to ye Councill. He sayd He came to discharge his duty as a member of that board.
The Gover" tould him he had beene dismist for his misdemeanors in Councill, and that a writt wasordered to be issued for Electing another in his Roome. He demanded for what. He knew nothing he had done, but that he had sayd thou wert a Deputy Gover', and that he was ready to make good ; and added, He was never heard ; He was never heard; and had asked for a Copy of the minute & could not have it.
The Secretary sayd: He spake to him therof in the Street, but never came to him for it.
The Gover' tould him It was Enterd, and that his behaviour was with so great contempt of the authority of the Proprietor & that board, as could not be borne ; And therefore, Required him to withdraw, which he Refused : thereupon The Gover' declared that if the Coun- cill did think fitt to suffer such interruptions to his & their procced- ings, and so high affronts to be given him sitting there, & there was no way to prevent the Coming of persons, He would adjourne the Councill to another time, and provide for his being kept out by somc officer he would appoint to keepe the doore.
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The sayd Richardson continuing there, and there being a Silence, The Gover" adjourned till two of the Clock in the afternoone.
POST MERIDIAM.
The same persons present.
The Gover" acquainted the board That he thought fitt That the heads of the charge he had exhibited against Tho. Lloyd should be prepared: and that as he had when he delivered in the same, pro- pounded A Committee might be appoynted for that purpose.
Joseph Growdon sayd: He thought it was fit That the businesse of Sam" Richardson should be considered, that the board might be filled with their members, and that he questioned whether the Councill had power to Exclude a member chosen by the people, for then they might all be Excluded at pleasure, &c.
The Gover tould him He doubted not to Exclude him or any mem- ber whatsoever, that should misbehave himselfe as he had done ; and sayd, It is the undoubted privilege of all Courts & Corporations to . judge the misbehaviours of their owne members sitting amongst them, and that his misbehaviour had been insufferably great in their opinions, and was comitted in their view, & consequently, That none could be so propper judges therof, and they had so adjudged it. He also Added, that many facts done in the view of one justice of the peace, Was sufficient for conviction, & Recording it.
It was moved, The proceedings might be read: they were Read. It was objected that ye Exclusion was but conditionall, and moved That he might be allowed to acknowledge his offence, or Fined, &c.
The Gover' sayd He knew not that they could ffine him. That it was to late to admitt his acknowledgement if he should tender it now, for that a writt was ordered to be issued for a new Election, which had beene notifyed by the Sheriffe. Besides, that there seemed to be little probabillity of his Submission, for It might be observed how that when he appeared in the morning, as he offerd no such thing, so he stood upon his owne innocency & vindication, saying He Knew nothing he had done; and when he had been ordered by the Gover to with- draw, he had refused so to do, and had inforced him to adjourne the Councill whilest he was present.
In fine, That the affront was insufferable. That it had been allready adjudged ; and that he should not sitt there to suffer such abuses & affronts, nor would he bear them from any member sitting at that board: and that he would advertise the Proprietor accordingly, and abide his Censure.
Many intemperate Speeches & passages happend, ffitt to be had in oblivion.
The Gover' desired therefore, They would forbeare all provoking heats & annimosityes intheir further proceedings, and proposed againe, That a Comittee might be appoynted to prepare & forme the charge against Tho. Lloyd, for that before they enterd upon preparing Bills, It was fit they should be in a Capacity to make them & Execute them when made Laws, which could not be till those things were considered, and due remedyes applyed, and that depended thereon, The sayd
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Tho. Lloyd assuming to himself to render all their attempts insignifi- cant whilest he refused to set the Great Seale in cases Requisit.
Here againe arose some warme debates, divers of the members ex- pressing their in-ordinate affections for the sayd Tho. Lloyd; and saying they could not (& one of them he would not) believe him to be such a person, & so guilty as was mentioned in the Charge.
The Gover" tould them the things would be proved.
Some moved that he might be sent for and heard what he had to say for himselfe, before there were any further proceedings, saying it may be he could give the board satisfaction.
The Gover" Replyed The articles were not finished, and It was against all the Rules of judiciall proceedings to Require a man to an- swer till his charge was ready. He added, That he had in the name of his master charged him with crymes, offences & misdemeanors, which were well known to himselfe, the Gover", and to divers other members of that board present to have been comitted by him. That when the charge was ready He should be sent for. It should then be Read to him and his answer required, and a Coppy therof & time given him for making his deffence. But that divers of the things were so well known to be true, and were of so high a nature, and so mischiev- ous & obstructive to his and their proceedings in the Governm', as by the Charter and Laws was required, that without application of due remedves it was in vayne for him & them to sitt there, (web was like- wise declared to be the opinion of divers of the members present : but was of little esteeme with others, on the account of their tender- nesse towards him,) and the sayd motions rejected in such warme Expressions as are not fitt to be Recorded.
It was objected by some that such proceedings against such a per- son would be of ill consequence to the Contrey at this time, in that it would discourage persons from coming over amongst them, &c.
It was answered That on the contrary, if partiallity were used, that would more discourage persons ; Especially where justice required their detestation of such things comitted by friends, if they should not Testify against it, &c.
The Governor tould them It was needfull to lay aside affection, & todo justice on the behalfe of the Proprietor & pcople, and tould them, if they should not think fitt to direct a' further proceedings, he would himself' appoynt some persons to do what he had moved, in order to the per- fecting the charge, and preparing, methodizing & mannageing the evidence.
It was answered by some, He might if he would; they were not satisfyed in it.
Wherupon the Gover thought fitt to give them a dayes respit to con- sider what they would do.
It was moved They might sitt in a grand Comittee amongst them- selves.
The Gover', (being aware of what was indeavord abroad,) &c., Replyed, He saw how hard a matter it was for them to keep within ye bounds of due respect to each other : That he did not therefore
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think fitt to allow therof unlesse himselfe were present, as he conceiv- ed it was his duty to be at all their meetings & transactions in pub- lique atfayres.
It was answered that would not do, &c.
Thereupon the Governor adjourned the Councill untill the 5" day of the month, at nine of the clock in the forenoone.
At a Councill mett in the Councill Roome in Philadelphia, the 5th of ye 2ª Mo., 1689.
PRESENT :
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'., Gov.
Wm. Clark, Griff. Jones,
Wm. Yardly,
Per Alrichs, Jnº. Symcock, Barth. Coppock,
Luke Watson, Jn". Bristow, Sam" Carpenter,
Jnº. D'Haes,
Wm. Stockdale, Jnº. Curtis,
Jnº. Hill, Jos. Growdon, Wm. Markham, Secre.
The Governor & Councill being assembled & Sate, were entring upon businesse, But were interrupted by Tho. Lloyd's comming in, in man- ner following, viz':
The Gover' asked him if he had any thing to say to the Councill. He answered that he came to take his place & do his duty as a member of that board.
The Gover' tould him, There was nothing Expected of him untill he should have given satisfaction to ye board touching severall high crimes, offences & misdemeanors, wherewith he stood charged. And therefore desired him to withdraw & not to hinder their proceedings. He Replyed, (amongst other things,) He had as good Right to sitt there & give his advice as the Gover' had to be Gover". That he had a double Right, &c. The Gover' tould him It was not so judged, &c,. and in as much as he would not withdraw the Gover' adjourned to his owne Lodgeing in Philadelphia, and arose; Requireing the members of of the Board to attend him there forthwith.
Most of the members stayed some time, during Which there were so sharpe & unsavoury Expressions used by him, the sayd Tho. Lloyd, to the provoking divers of ye sayd members, some of which were heard by the Governor himselfc, whilest he stayed without the doore, & others of web was acquainted by the Secretary, who came out to him & tould him they were in such heats & quarrellings as he believed would not Easily End If the Gover did not returne & comand their departure. The Governor Returned and Required of him, ye sayd Tho. Lloyd, that he should depart ; and likewise the members of ye Councill, that they forthwith attend him to yª place to weh he had ad- journed them. Some of them, to the number of 6 or 7, went away with the Governor, and the Rest came all of them in a short space afterwards.
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Being sate, The Governor directed the Entryes of ye last daye's proceedings might be Read: they were read.
Some Exceptions were taken against some parts of it by Sam" Car- penter : the Gover" thereupon directed they should be read over, in parts, That notice might be taken of the particulars.
Joseph Growdon declared himself against the whole, but in reading that part wherin it was exprest That he questioned wether the Coun- cill had power to exclude a member chosen by the people, for then they might be excluded at pleasure: he sayd he did not remember that he used the words at pleasure. Also, ye words [they were Read there- vpon] Excepted ag' agreed to be put out.
Sam" Carpenter sayd, He did not know That any intemperate speeches had been used, and moved That part might be omitted in the Entryes.
The Gover" Replyed he judged them to be so. John Symcock Ex- prest his desire that ye word [in-ordinate] where it is sayd divers of the members expressing their in ordinate affections for ye sayd Tho. Lloyd. The Gover" Replyed that was his sence of it, for that he could not prevayle with them to put the charge into a way of pro- cedure, &c.
This being over, The Governor desired they would severally declare their opinions, whether That interruption & disturbance to their peaceable sitting in the Councill Roome, made & given by Tho. Lloyd, were not a misbehaviour in him: divers of them particularly & expressly declared they so adjudged it, and that it could not be judged otherwise: Others were of a contrary opinion ; and some would not speak as to ye behavior or misbehavior, but declared obliquely, viz : One that it was not his opinion That Tho. Lloyd came there with intention or designe to misbehave himself; some That his coming to demand his right was not a misbehaviour; others y' they were not present at ye begining & did not see any misbehaviour ; others that there was not any likelyhood of their going together by the ears, as had beene affirmed.
Wm. Clark sayd no member of Councill ought to challenge a place till his qualification be judged by the Councill; he doubted not but Tho. Lloyd was duely Elected ; but there was a high charge against him, and in such cases It had beene the usuall method of the procecd- ings of that board not to admitt members returned till they had cleared themselves, for that till then he is to be look'd upon as a person that may be guilty, at least by some persons, and that till he be cleared he ought not to attempt to take the seate of a member at the board. John Hill sayd that was his case: he was not admitted after long at- tendance, and that though he had not spoken or acted as Tho. Lloyd had done, yet Tho. Lloyd said he ought to be bound to the good be- haviour, &c. Joseph Growdon moved for ye Ballot. The Gover an- swered He had not heard that ever it was used in Councill before he came. But now that he had heard their severall opinions, He would take it upon himselfe to Exercise his authority, as he was directed by the Honble Prop"F & Chief Governor, for suppressing all factions, Se ditions & animosityes, and so past off from that debate.
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The Gover' moved to know their mindes whether they would enter upon the consideration of preparing bills to be past into Laws, & tould them he would put the businesse of the charge against 'T'ho. Lloyd, into a way of perparation for their proceedings theron : after many thinghs sayd in debate, The Governor proposed thisQuestion, Viz' .:
As many as are of opinion That this Councill shall proceed upon the businesse of preparing bills to be past into Laws, and that there is a sufficient number to proceed theron, declare yourselves by stand- ing up from y' seates. It was carryed in the affirmative by Eleaven of 15 voyes of ye members present. The 4 dissenters were Sam" Carpenter, Jos. Growdon, Wm. Yardly and Jnº Bristow.
And in order to their better proceedings therin, It was Resolved and ordered,
1. That the Rolls of all the Laws and ingrost lawes of this Pro- . vince & Countyes annexed, appoynted by the King's Letters pattents, to be published under the seale, shall be brought before this board by the Keeper & master of the Rolls, or his Deputy, in order to the con- sideration of them, whether they have that Sanction which the Patent & Charter requires.
2. That the time for bringing them in shall be at ye next sitting of the Councill.
3. That Wm. Clark, John Symcock, & Jnº Bristow, do attend the Keeper with these Resolves.
Adjorned till nine of ye Clock to morrow morning.
At a Councill in the Councill Roome at Philadelphia, ye 6ª of ye 24 month, 1689.
PRESENT :
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'., Gover".
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John D'Haes, Jnº Symcock, Wm. Stockdale,
Pet' Alrichs, Barth. Coppock, Jos. Growdon,
Wm. Clark, Griff. Jones, Wm. Yardley,
Luke Watson, Jnº Curtis,
Wm. Markham, Secre.
Jn" Bristow, Jnº Hill,
The Gover directed ye Entry of the proceedings of the last Coun- cill should be Read. They were Read.
Wm. Clark (in presence of John Symcock & Jnº Bristow) Report- ed to ye Councill That In obedience to ye Resolves & order of ye board past at the last sitting, they did go to the Keeper & Master of the Rolls to acquaint him with those Resolves, & did acquaint him therwith ; upon which he ask'd whether or no that they were to de- liver as a message was by word of mouth or in writing. That they answered, That they had not any distinct comand about that, but that he had a Coppy of the savd Resolves, which he delivered to him; and that after he had perused it, the Keeper returned this answer : That he would prepare his answer for it. That he asked the Keeper
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when it might be expected, & told him it was desired the board might have it this morning. The Keeper answer'd He should take care of it.
The Keeper presented himselfe in the Councill roome.
The Gover" acquainted him with the substance of the Resolves, and that the Comittee appoynted had Reported. That he sayd he would give in his answer.
The Keeper tenderd his answer in writting, wch was read by ye Secre. and is as followeth, Viz':
To the present Gov & members of Prov: Councel.
I received y' Resolves this Evening late, of my bringing to your next Councel the Rolls of all the Laws & Ingrossed Laws of this Prov. & Territories, appointed by the King's Letter's Patents to be published under the Seal; Truely I know n' any such Laws, either in Rolls or ingrossem', so appointed to be published, neither can I understand by your Order what Seal is meant, whether the Greater or Lesser : neither have I declined my Duty in inrolling or legally recording any Laws w t the Gov' & Councel, or General Assembly, have Recomended or directed to my Office : The Truest ingrossed Copy of the Laws wch I know of is that which belongeth to & was used at the Board by the Proprietarie & Gover", & as I suppose, may Conteyn all the Laws made Since, & which Copy was generally perused upon Legislation. A fuller answer I cannot well give in so short a Time, but shall en- deavour personally to returne you further-satisfaction to what Ques- tions you may propose herein ..
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