USA > Pennsylvania > Colonial records of Pennsylvania, Vol. I > Part 28
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THO. LLOYD, M'. of the Rolls.
PHILADELPHI. the 5' sec Mº., 1689.
The Gover" asked the Keeper whether any Laws of this Contrey had been past or published under ye Great Seale : He answered The Originall Charter (which now remayns in his custody,) was past under the Great Seale, but no other Lawes that he knowes of, Except ye act of union, were, which in ye close therof is sayd to be past un- der the Great Scale, but he knows not where that is, or whether it were past under the Great Seale or not ..
The Governor askd the Master of the Rolls whether the Laws were enrolled in parchm' Rolls, as by the Charter & his Comission of Mas- ter of the Rolls is required. He answerd, None but ye first 60 Laws past at Chester had been inrolled ; That their inrollm' was before his time ; and he could not say that those Rolls were anthentique Coppyes: and that he did not know any better Coppy of the Laws than that wª the Councill hath.
Some Question arose' whether the Laws were to be published under the Great or the Lesser Seale. The Gover' declared That by :. Letters patents from the King, they were to be published under y' Scak. of Wm. Penn or his heirs, and that by the Proprietor's Comission to the Keeper of ye Great Seale, He was appoynted to passe them under the Great Seale.
Griff. Jones proposed that the Inrolled Coppyes of the first 60 Lawe- might be compared with the Coppy used at the Councill, and that the Councill's book of Laws might be sett right for so farre. Approved
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therof: & in order thereunto, The Gover" proposed, That those Rolls should be brought to ye Councill & compared, for that purpose. The Keeper promised The Rolls should be delivered to ye Secretary, or whom the board should direct, & left with them for the space of a week, or such time as they should think fit, in order therunto.
The Gover' Proposed That the Comittee sent yesterday to the Keeper might be desired to attend the Keeper for the Receiving the sayd Rolis.
The Comittee went, and after a short space returned with three parchm' Rolls, conteyning the Enrollment of 69 Lawes, according to the numbring of them with figures.
The Board Refered them to the Secretary, to be Examined by com- paring them with the Councill's book of Laws, and directed That if he found any variations in the numbring or Coppying of them, such variations should be Reported to ye board at next sitting.
Adjourned to the 2ª day next week, at 10 of ye clock in the fore- noone.
At a Councill in the Councill Roomne at Philadelphia ye S' of yª 24 Mo., 1689.
PRESENT :
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'. Gover".
Wm. Clark,
Wm. Yardly,
Wm. Stockdale,
Jn' Symcock, Griff. Jones, Jnº D'Haes,
Jnº Curtis, Luke Watson, Pet" Alrichs,
Joseph Growdon, John Bristow, . Sam" Carpenter,
Jnº Hill, Barth. Coppock, Wm. Markham, Secre.
The Gover' directed ye Secetary to Read the entryes of ye last Councill's proccedings. They were read.
The Gover' caused two Letters to be read, directed to him from ye Justices & Sheriffe of ye County of Sussex, touching a Rumor of an invasion made on Maryland by 9000 Sennekers & ffrench, &c. But ye board having received advertissem' That it was groundlesse, It was thought fitt That ye Gover' should returne thanks to ye Gent. for their care, but withall to caution them that they do not herafter presume to rayse the Contrey without more manifest cause; and directions for that purpose.
The Secretary Reported his having Examined & compared the Rolls of ye first 60 Lawes with ye Councill's book of Laws. He found little agreem', and that ye sayd Rolls, as ye Keeper sayd last sitting of yª Councill, were not authentique; So that there was no depending on them.
The Gover' proposed their proceedure upon the consideration of vª fundamentall Lawes, & agreed weh were the fundamentall, Viz': the act of Naturalization or union, ye first, 36°, 37°, 35°, 434, 51", 56th, 57ª1, 587, 024, 64", 67th, and 1324.
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The Gover' proposed they would be Serious in ye Consideration whether ye sayd fundamentall laws were sufficiently confirmed or Established, having not been published under ye Seale, as by ye King's patents was directed, and that they would come prepared to Resolve it to morrow morning, 9 of ye Clock.
Ordered y' yª parchm' Rolls recd saturday of ye Keeper, should be Returned by ye Comte that brought them.
Adjorned till to morrow morning, 9 of ye clock ..
At a Meeting of the Provinciall Councill in the Councill Roome at Philadelphia the 9th day of ye 24 Mo., 1689.
PRESENT:
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'. Gov".
Wm. Clark,
Peter Alrichs,
Barth. Coppock,
Luke Watson,
John D'Haes, Jos. Growden,
Jnº Hill, Wm. Stockdale,
Wm. Yardly,
Griff. Jones, Jnº Symcock,
Wm. Markham, Se.
Jnº. Curtis, Jnº Bristow,
The Gover' directed ye Secre to read the Entryes of the last day's proceedings. They were read.
The Governor acquainted the board that he hoped they were come prepared for the Consideration & further debate about preparing Bills adjourned to this time; But withall, that he thought meet to acquaint them That he had this morning received a printed paper, (called the fframe of the Governm'. of thi- Province, &c.,) brought unto him by the Secretary, who sayd he had it from Wm. Clark, a member of this board, and that he had it from Jos. Growdon; who being present, the Gover' desired to know of him how he came by it.
Jos. Growdon answerd, Wm. Clark had a little book of me.
The Gover' asked him againe how he came by it, & tould him, It was a high presumption in any man, especially a member of that board, to promote the publishing of any paper of such concerne with- out direction, Especialy for that it was false in so fundamentall a poynt as that was, and that unlesse he could cleare himselfe he was liable to Censure.
Growdon answerd, If there were any error it was in the printing of it.
The Gover' askd Wm. Clark whether he had Received it from Jos. Growdon. He answerd he had, & that he askd him 6ª for it, & tould him it cost him 2ah printing, & that he offerd him 6 more for 184.
The Gover" asked Growdon who printed it. He answerd he did not know. The Governor askd him whether he had ordered the printing of it.
He answerd. He was not bound to accuse himselfe.
Being asked when he gave it out to be printed. He answerd He supposed that what was printed Was printed before yesterday, and he
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did not think he was bound to answer any further about it. He did not intend any hurt in what he had done in giving out some of the papers.
The Gover' having askd him if he had any thing more to say, He was silent. He then directed him to withdraw, whilest ye Coun- cill should consider what to do in it.
He sayd, He did not think fitt to withdraw.
The Gover' proposed it to ye Councill to declare their opinions whether he ought not to withdraw whilest it was debated. They being silent,
The Gover" adjourned the Councill till 2 of ye Clock in the after- noone.
POST MERIDIEM.
The same members present, & Sam" Carpenter.
The Gover' sayd He should take up the businesse of Jos. Growdon publishing the printed paper produced in the morning, For that. he lookd upon it as being of a dangerous nature (in the present Condi- tion of our affayrs, and distractions the Countrey were in) to have such a paper published ; not only for that it was false, But for that the Proprietor had declared himselfe against the using of the printing presse; and Especially for that there seemed to him to be severall things therein conteyned which though they might be fit for the peo- ple of this Province to know, (and that they might do by having Resort to the Keeper's, where it was lodged,) but would be of ill conse- quence to be Known to others, and possibly might bring the Proprie- tor's title in question, &c., and therefore declared He Expected That Jos. Growdon should withdraw, whilest they gave their sense about it.
Jnº Symcock declared he was not satisfyed that it was any preju- dice to ye Contrey, for that the Gover' had sayd He would have the Children taught it.
The Governor Replyed: are you not satisfyed That Growdon should withdraw till it be debated.
Growdon himselfe sayd. He did not think fitt to withdraw to be judged behinde his back.
John Eckley came in the Councill Roome, and sayd he was come to offer himselie to ye board to do his duty. The Gover tould him they were at present on another consideration, & desired him to with- draw till that was over.
Jos. Growdon demanded That all the members of the Councill might be admitted before they proceeded any further.
The Gover" tould them they were all present Except Tho. Lloyd, who stood charged with so high Crimes, offences & misdemeanors, as he could not think fitt to admitt him till he had answerd to them, wch he found them unwilling to bring him to a tryall upon, and Sam1 Richardson, who was Excluded for great contempt of the Proprietor's & Gover" authority : Only John Eckley, whose Elections they had voted illegall.
Wherupon Wm. Yardley declared, Except we may have our members weh were duly & according to charter Elected, & intrusted by the people for the service of ye Contrey, admitted to sitt with us
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for the service that is Expected by them that chose them, desired we may be dismist rather than to sitt here.
The Gover sayd he knew of none kept out That are duly Elected, unlesse (as he had sayd before) such as are under a charge & Sentence of this board of misdemeanor.
Jnº Hill sayd: That he observed since he had been at Councill, there had been many obstructions in our debates for making Laws; that we could not proceed. I desire we may be dismist, & think it best the Gover' chose his owne Councill : we cannot agree.
Jnº D'Haes sayd: For my part I was chosen by the Contrey, and I see no businesse can be done but by quarrelling at every thing, So ' that we are all hindred from doing any thing: I desire we may be dismist & not required to stav longer : we can do no good.
Sam" Carpenter sayd: As to that man that appeared last, (viz: Jnº Eckley,) I hope thou hast nothing against him nor his Election. If thou hast, I desire to know what thou hast. I desire he may be admitted to take his place.
Joseph Growdon sayd the Ballot was to decide doubtfull questions.
Griff. Jones sayd there were such disorders at the Election as he never saw before. We desired the Poll and Ballot, and appealed whether there were not many persons present that were inhabitants of Chester Countey, and that came out of Jarsey, which by the Poll or Ballot we should have known whether they had right or not to elect, & could not otherwise be determined.
I did as much as in me lav to have it-done by the Ballot, as the Charter directed, &c. But I am sure we spend our owne time & money, & the Contrey's, in hopes of having laws, but we cannot hitt it; we are hindred from doing any thing ; Therefore, I think it is best for every one of us to go about our businesse. We do but Exaspe- rate & provoke one another, and beget heats & animosityes, to the hurt of the Governmt.
Jnº Symcock sayd: as to the writ that went out for the Election of John Eckley, If I mistake not there were some things in it as that They should either make a new Election or stand to their first choyse ; and if so, thou mayest be satisfyed. '
The Gover' Replyed he did not remember any such thing ; But should be as glad as any man to finde there were a doore open to admitt him, for he looked upon him as a very worthy person. But he thought it was otherwise. .
The Gover' desired the Entry of the writt might be. read.
Whilest that was sent for, in order to the Reading of it, Wm. Stock- dale sayd He wonderd that the Ballotting box should in some Cases be so much cryed up & at other times densed, wherein our priviledges & libertyes are much concerned.
The Gover' sayd: I will answer for my denyall therof in such cases wherin I have not thought it necessary to use it. But (added) I sce there is such a ffaction made amongst you of this board, That I can- not answer it to trust the affavrs of the Governm' comitted to me, unto such a Clandestine decision ; For I see how you are influenced, many of you, &c. But besides, I am assured It has not beene used in like cases before my coming at this board.
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The Secretary produced the Entry of the writt of Election of Jn" Eckley, &c., weh was Read; which is as followeth, viz': JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'., Govern' of the Province of Pensilva- nia & Countyes annexed, Under the Honble William Penn, Lord Proprietor and Cheif Governor of the same, & his Heirs.
To John Claypoole, High Sheriffe of the County of Philadelphia, sendeth Greeting :-
Wheras, it hath appeared to ye Provinciall Councill, by your return of Elections made the Eleventh day of the first month, commonly call- ed March, bearing date the 29th day of the first month, 1659, That a great number of Persons having mett in Philadelphia for the Elec- tion of one person for a member of Provinciall Councill, and six for assembly, amongst which were about 50 or 60 persons of the Town- ship of Haverford & Radnor, &c., who were supposed not to belong to the County of Philadelphia ; Yett they then gave their Vote by Ballott, with ye Freemen of the sayd County; Wherupon the sayd Election was by the sayd Councill resolved not to be a good Election, according to the Charter and rules in that behalfe, although they could not but approve of the sayd Jnº Eckley as a worthy and fitt person : And whereas, Sam" Richardson, a late member of the sayd Prov" Councill, through his great misdemeanor, as well towards the Honble Proprietor, in contemning & denying his authority, as towards the present Gover" under him and his Heirs, Insolently denying him to be Gover', and that the Proprietor could not make a Gover and other wrath full and outragious words, deportem' & carriage of his, in view of the Councill sitting for mannagem' of the affayrs of the Governm', w.ch occationed the Vote and resolve following to be past against him on the 25th day of the last 12" month, viz': that the words & Carriage of the sayd Sam" Richardson were unwhorty and unbe- coming a member of yº Councill to the Gover", and that he ought to acknowledge his offence and promise more respect and heed for the future, before he be allowed to sitt againe in Councill: and wheras, he, the sayd Sam" Richardson, persisting in his obstinacy, hath not to this day either acknowledged his sayd offences, or promissed more respect or heed for the future, but declared himselfe, he cared not whether ever he satt there more again: And wheras, there is a pre- sent need of the full number of members to serve for provin" Councill, as by Charter is required for preparing bills to be past into Laws, and other Weighty matters :
These are therfore, by his Maj'y authority, and in the name of the Honb'e Lord Proprietor and Cheif Governor, to will and require you to give as Speedy and timely notice as may beto the Freemen Inhabi- tants within your County capable of Electing, That they meet at the usuall place of meeting for such purposes, on the eighth day of this instant month, comonly Called Aprill, between the Hours of nine & Eleven, then and there to Elect and Choose from amongst themselves Two persons, of whom they have had experience for their approved fidelity, Virtue, Wisdome, Ability and Peaceable demeanor, to serve in the sayd Prov" Councill, Viz' .: either by confirming the sayd Jn" Eckley, or choosing some other whom they shall think fitt in his stead, for the
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terme of Three years ; and whom else they shall think fittest to serve in the stead of ye sayd Sam" Richardson, for the remaining Space of two years of the three for which he was Choosen ; and that you make due returne therof to the Gover" & Prov" Councill, for which this shall be your Warrant. Given at Philadelphia, the 24 day of the Second month, in the 5th year of the Reign of King James the Second of England, &c., and ninth of the Proprietor's Governm' in and over this Province, &c., anno Dom. 1689.
The Gover' Declared He was sorry It did not answer Jnº Symcock's Expectation, for he did not finde, That they were directed to confirme Jnº Eckley otherwise than in the usuall way directed by the Charter for Election by the Ballot, which had been demanded, but the disor- der of the people would not permit it.
Wm. Clark sayd: He did not see that necessity of the Ballot for Jnº Eckley, but to have a free vote for his confirming, and thought he might be admitted for any thing that he did understand.
John Bristow desired to know whether the Sheriffe had made any Returne of it or no, & desired the Returne might be read if it were made.
The Sheriffe's Returne was read by the Secretary, wch is as fol- loweth, viz'. :
To the Honble JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq"., Govern' of the Pro- vince of Pennsilvania and Countyes annexed, and Provinciall Councill, &c.
According to a Warrant from ye sayd Honble Gover', to me directed, the Ffreemen of this County mett at ye time and place therin Specified, and a method being proposed, they did declare that at that time they were not willing to vote by Ballott, and then nominating Jnº Eckley, they did by Maj' Vote confirm him to be their representative in Councill for the term of Three years ; and afterwards putting up Sam" Richard- son, they did by Maj" Vote Elect him for the remaining time he was to have served, and likewise declared their willingness to Confirm the former Choice of members for Assembly. In Witness wherof, I have hereunto sett my hand and Seal, the Eighth day of the Second month, in the ffifth year of the King's Reign, & ninth of the Lord Proprietor's Governm'., Anno Dom. 1689.
JOHN CLAYPOOLE, Sheriff.
John Bristow observed upon it, That the writt was satisfyed by that returne; For it was a confirming John Eckley, as was directed by the writt.
Wm. Yardly sayd : My opinion is, That the Return of the Sheriffe is that the people have confirmed that Election that was before, and so has answered the writt, and that he has right to come & take his place.
Bath. Coppock declared: He was of the same opinion with the member that spake last.
Wm. Stockdale sayd: I do also agree with what the last member sayd. Sam" Carpenter sayd : The use of the Ballot is where there is
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doubt. Here it was apparent, & therfore I think it is as well every whitt in this case.
The Gover' sayd: The former Election has been allready deter- mined not to be a good Election, and therefore that cannot be insisted upon.
John Curtis sayd: I think it was a very fayre Election. In other places we are Generally chosen by the Vote: and I think where they are unanimous, there needs no controvercy.
The Ballotting box is not used in any other place but this County. Wee are Elected by Vote.
· Griff. Jones answered That was & mistake, for it is used at upland & in all the Lower Countyes, by black & white beanes put into a hatt, wch is a balloting in his sense, & cannot be denyed by the Char- ter, where it is demanded.
The Gover' sayd I take it to be so agreed by the Charter that the Election shall be by ye ballot, and am sorry it was not so done in this County upon this occasion, where they had always heretofore insisted upon it as their Right. But I do not yet see how it can be allowed that Jnº Eckley should sitt.
Sam" Carpenter sayd : I look upon it that we are judges of Our members, otherwise we may be Refused or turned out at pleasure. We are abused.
The Gover' desired him to Explayne himselfe by whom they were abused. His answer was as dark as his former Expression ; and so was past over.
Wm. Clark sayd: a great deale of time hath been spent & little or nothing donc. We mett as a legislative Councill in order to preparing lawes, But we are not yet gotten to the begining of that ; and I do not see we are like to make any progresse in it. One thing or other does happen amongst ourselves to put a Stop to our procedure, and now the time is so farr spent that I think we shall not have time to go on with it if there were no objections in the way. We have sate already longer than we used to do on this occasion, and for as much as we are not like to do any thing, I desire we may be dismist to our private Con- cernes.
Griff. Jones sayd: I have once already, & I doe againe desire, if we cannot go on to make Laws for the Province & Countyes annexed, & people therof, & that without interruption, That we may have liberty to go about our businesse.
Peter Alrich sayd: I desire we may be dismist & go about our businesse; things standing as they do, that we cannot be suffered to proceed.
Wm. Stockdale sayd: I desire we may have our members for car- rying on of what lyes before us, as we ought to do, &c.
Wm. Markham sayd: He thought it was necessary the Councill should be dismist; he saw no service they like to do, & that it was too late now to begin to prepare lawes seasonably.
Jnº Symcock sayd: A dismisse might be acceptable enough to most or all of us, but we are obliged to do some service for weh we came, and to that end we have mostly all along desired to have our members. I
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desire that what of our time remayns we may indeavor to spend it to the purpose intended.
The Gover' sayd : I am sorry we have beene renderd thus indisposed thereto by Councills from abroad. I have frequently given you the grounds of my not agreeing with you, as to the bringing in the three . members you would have. I have a Conscience to be Exercised, & a duty incumbent in discharge of my trust, as well as any of you, and I conceive it lyes with more weight upon me if I suffer a misca- riage in these Councills. But I have sayd what was on my thought to say as there has been occasion ; and since it appeares to me, That we are hinderd on that pretence from proceeding any further, I think fitt (according to the advices of many of you) to adjourne this meeting of Councill on the Legislative account, till further occasion ; Expecting you do agree amongst yourselves who shall attend the ordinary meet- ings of this board, on each 2ª & 5th days of Every week, as was formerly agreed; and that you fayle not of your attendance ac- cordingly.
The Gover" Adjourned till the 2ª day of the next week.
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Entry of the names of the members of Prov" Councill who were attending in the towne of Philadelphia, on the severall dayes ap- poynted for holding Councills by the Governor, Viz':
On yº 15th of ye 24 Mo .; 1689.
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'., Gov'.
Luke Watson, , John Curtis, Sam" Carpenter.
Wm. Stockdale, Wm. Yardley,
On ye 18th of ye 24 Mo., 1689.
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'., Gover'.
Luke Watson, Wm. Stockdale, Sam11 Carpenter.
Griff. Jones,
On ye 22th of ye 2ª Mo.
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'., Gov'.
Luke Watson, Sam" Carpenter, WVm. Markham, Secre.
Griff. Jones,
On ye 25th of'ye 2ª Mo.
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'., Gov'.
Luke Watson, Wm. Stockdale, Wm. Markham, Secre.
Griff. Jones,
On ye 29th of ye 2ª Mo.
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'., Gov'. Luke Watson, Griff. Jones, Wm. Markham. Secre.
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On y' 2ª of yº 3ª Mo.
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'., Gov".
Luke Watson, Barth. Coppock, Wm. Markham, Secre.
On ye 6th of ye 3ª Mo.
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'., Gov". Luke Watson, Barth. Coppock, Wm. Markham, Sc.
On ye 9th of ye 3ª Mo.
. JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq'., Gover". Barth. Coppock, Wm. Markham, Secre.
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At a Councill in ye Councill Roome in Philadelphia ye tenth day of ye third Mo., 1689.
PRESENT :
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq"., Gov'. 1
John Symcock, Jnº Hill,
Wm. Yardley,
Luke Watson, Wm. Stockdale, Sam" Carpenter,
John Curtis, Jos. Growdon,
Wm. Markham, Secre.
Barth. Coppock,
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There wanting two members to make up a full Legislative Coun- cill, The Councill fell into a free discourse amongst themselves about ye Expediency of Letting the Laws drop or fall, and some things toaching the administration of ye Governm' untill other Laws should be made, or directions should come from ye Proprietor, &c., out of England. But nothing was concluded, Only To adjourne till 5 of ye Clock in ye evening.
At a Councill at the Governor's Lodgeing In Philadelphia, ye 11" of ye 3ª Mo., 1689.
PRESENT :
JOHN BLACKWELL, Esq. Gov.
John Symcock, Wm. Stockdale, In° Hill,
Wm. Clark, Jos. Growdon, Wm. Yardly,
Sam" Carpenter, Luke Watson,
Wm. Markham, Secre.
Barth. Coppock, Jnº Curtis,
The Gov' acquainted the Councill That yesterday, towards even- ing, two of ye members of ye Assembly had signifyed to him That ye assembly was mett, and that they had sent them to acquaint vr Gov and Councill therewith, and that they had something to say to them. The Gov" proposed that ye Councill would Consider whether
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. they could appoint a Comittee, or do any thing as a Genall assembly untill the Councill were at least 12.
The Opinion was they could not ; and it was therupon ordered.
That John Bristow should be written to by ye Secretary to appearc to give his attendance in Councill by 9 of ye Clock ve 13" instant.
Likewise ordered, That ye members of New Castle be written to, to give their attendance in Councill at ve same time.
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