USA > Wisconsin > The Wisconsin blue book 1889 > Part 11
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If it be proposed to amend by leaving out certain words, it may be moved, as an amend- ment to this amendment, to leave out a part of the words of the amendment, which is equivalent to leaving them in the bill. 2 Hats., 80, 9. The parliamentary question is always, whether the words shall stand part of the bill.
When it is proposed to amend by inserting a paragraph, or part of one, the friends of the paragraph may make it as perfect as they can by amendments before the question is put for inserting it. If it be received, it cannot be amended afterwards, in the same stage, because the House has, on a vote, agreed to it in that form. In like manner, if it is proposed to amend by striking out a paragraph, the friends of the paragraph are first to make it as perfect as they can by amendments, before the question is put for striking it out. If on the question it be retained, it cannot be amended afterwards, because a vote against strik. ing out is equivalent to a vote agreeing to it in that form.
When it is moved to amend by striking out certain words and inserting others, the man- ner of stating the question is first to read the whole passage to be amended as It stands at prosent, then the words proposed to be struck out, next those to be Inserted, and lastly the whole passage as it will be when amended. And the question, if desired, is then to be divided, and put first on striking out. If carried, it is next on inserting the words proposed. If that be lost, it may be moved to insert others. 2 Hats., S0, 7.
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MANUAL OF PARLIAMENTARY PRACTICE.
A motion is made to amend by striking out certain words and inserting others in their place, which is negatived. Then it is moved to strike out the same words, and to insert others of a tenor entirely different from those first proposed. It is negatived. Then it is moved to strike out the same words and insert nothing, which is agreed to. All this is ad- missible, because to strike out and insert A, is one proposition. To strike out and insert B, is a different proposition. And to strike out and insert nothing, is still different. And the rejection of one proposition does not preclude the offering a different one. Nor would it change the case were the first motion divided by putting the question first on striking out, and that negatived; for, as putting the whole motion to the question at once would not have precluded, the putting the half of it cannot do it .*
But if it had been carried affirmatively to strike out the words and to insert A, it could not afterwards be permitted to strike out A and insert B. The mover of B should have notified, while the insertion of A was under debate, that he would move to insert B; in which case those who preferred it would join in rejecting A.
After A is inserted, however, it may be moved to strike out a portion of the original par- $889 agraph, comprehending A, provided the coherence to be struck out be so substantial as to make this effectively a different proposition, for then it is resolved into the common case of striking out a paragraph after amending it. Nor does anything forbid a new insertion, in- stead of A and its coherents.
In Senate, January 25, 1798, a motion to postpone until the second Tuesday in February some amendments proposed to the Constitution; the words, "until the second Tuesday in February " were struck out by way of amendment. Then it was moved to add, "until the first day of June." Objected that it was not in order, as the question should be first put on the longest time; therefore, after a shorter time decided against a longer, cannot be put to question. It was answered that this rule takes place only in filling blanks for time. But when a specific time stands part of motion, that may be struck out as well as any other part of a motion; and when struck out a motion may be received to insert any other. In fact, it is not until they are struck out, and a blank for the time thereby produced, that the rule can begin to operate, by receiving all the propositions for different times, and putting the question successively on the longest. Otherwise it would be in the power of the mover, by inserting originally a short time, to preclude the possibility of a longer, for till the short time is struck out, you cannot insert a longer; and if, after it is struck out, you cannot do it, then it cannot be done at all. Suppose the first motion had been made to amend by striking out "the second Tuesday in February," and inserting instead thereof "the first of June," it would have been regular, then, to divide the question, by proposing the first ques- tion to strike out and then that to insert. Now this is precisely the effect of the present pro- ceeding; only, instead of one motion and two questions, there are two motions and two questions to effect it - the motion being divided as well as the question.
When the matter contained in two bills might better be put into one, the manner is to reject the one, and incorporate its matter into another bill by way of amendment. So if the matter of one bill would be better distributed into two, any part may be struck out by way of amendment, and put into a new bill. If a section is to be transposed, a question must be put on striking it out where it stands, and another for inserting it in the place desired.
A bill passed by the one House with blanks. These may be filled up by the other by way of amendments, returned to the first as such, and passed. 3 Hats., S3.
The number prefixed to the section of a bill, being merely a marginal indication, and no part of the text of the bill, the clerk regulates that -the House or committee is only to amend the text.
SECTION XXXVL DIVISION OF THE QUESTION.
If a question contain more parts than one, it may be divided into two or more questions. Mem. in Hakew., 39. But not as the right of an individual member, but with the consent of the House. For who is to decide whether a question is complicated or not ? - where it Ls complicated ?- into how many propositions it may be divided ? The fact is, that the only mode of separating a complicated question is by moving amendments to it; and these
' In the case of a division of the question, and a decision against sinking ont, I advance dou Singly the opinion bero expressed. I End no authority either way, and I know it may be viewed ander a LGerent aspect. it may be thought that having decided separately not to strike out the passage, the same question for sinking out cannot be pot ofer grain, though with a view to a different insertion. Still Ithas it more personabio and convenient to assifor the striking out ard inverton as forming one proposition; but should readily field to any evidence :hal the contrary u the practice in Parliament.
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must be decided by the House, on a question, unless the House orders it to be divided; as. on a question, December 2, 1640, making void the election of the knights for Worcester, on a motion it was resolved to make two questions of it, to wit: one on each knight. 2 Hata., 85, 86. So, wherever there are several names in question, they may be divided and put one by one. 9 Grey, 414. So, 1729, April 17, on an objection that a question was complicated, it was separated by amendment. 2 Hats., 79.
The soundness of these observations will be evident from the embarrassments produced by the 12th rule of the Senate, which says, "if the question in debate contain several points, any member may have the same divided."
1798, May 30, the alien bill in quasi-committee. To a section and proviso in the original had been added two new provisos by way of amendment. On a motion to strike out the section as amended, the question was desired to be divided. To do this it must be put first on striking out either the former proviso or some distinct member of the section. But when nothing remains but the last member or the section and the proviso, they cannot be divided so as to put the last member to question by itself; for the proviso might then be left standing alone as exceptions to a rule when the rule is taken away; or the new provisos might be left to a second question, after having been decided on once before at the same reading, which is contrary to rule. But the question must be on striking out the last mem- ber of the section as amended. This sweeps away the exceptions with the rule, and relieves from inconsistence. A question to be divisible, must comprehend points so distinct and entire that one of them being taken away the other may stand entire. But a proviso or an exception, without an enacting clause does not contain an entire point or proposition.
May 31. The same bill being before the Senate. There was a proviso that the bill should not extend, 1, To any foreign minister; nor, 2, To any person to whom the President should give a passport; nor, 3, To any alien merchant conforming himself to such regula; tions as the President shall prescribe, and a division of the question into its simplest ele- ments was called for. It was divided into four parts, the fourth taking in the words, "conforming himself," etc. It was objected that the words, "any alien merchant " could not be separated from their modifying words, " conforming," etc., because these words if left by themselves contain no substantive idea - will make no sense. But admitting that the divisions of a paragraph into separate questions must be so made that each part may stand by itself, yet the House having on the question, retained the two first divisions, the words "any alien merchant " may be struck out, and their modifying words will then attach themselves to the preceding description of persons, and become a modification of that description.
When a question is divided, after the question on the first member, the second is open to debate and amendment, because it is a known rule that a person may rise and speak at any time before the question has been completely decided, by putting the negative as well as the affirmative side. But the question is not completely put when the vote has been taken on the first member only. One-half of the question, both affirmative and negative remains still to be put. See Execut. Jour., June 25, 1793. The same decision by President Adams.
SECTION XXXVII. CO-EXISTING QUESTIONS,
It may be asked whether the House can be in possession of two motions or propositions at the same time, so that one of them being decided, the other goes to question without being moved anew? The answer must be special. When a question is interrupted by a vote of adjournment, it is thereby removed from before the House, and does not stand ipso facto before them at their next meeting, but must come forward in the usual way. So, when it is interrupted by the order of the day. Such other privileged questions also as dispose of the main question (e. g. the previous question, postponement, or commitment), remove it from before the House. But it is only suspended by a motion to amend, to withdraw, to read papers, or by a question of order or privilege, and stands again before the House when these are decided. None but the class of privileged questions can be brought forward while there is another question before the House, the rule being that when a motion has been made and seconded, no other can be received, except it be a privileged one.
SECTION XXXVIIL
EQUIVALENT.
If, on a question for rejection, a bill be retained, it passes of course to its next reading. Hakew., 141; Scob., 42. And a question for a second reading determined negatively, is a re Jection without further question. 4 Grey, 145. And see Elsynge's Memor., 42, in what casca questions are to be taken for rejection.
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MANUAL OF PARLIAMENTARY PRACTICE.
Where questions are perfectly equivalent, so that the negative of the ore amounts to the affirmative of the other, and leaves no other alternative, the decision of the one concludes necessarily the other. 4 Grey, 157. Thus the negative of striking out amounts to the afarm- ative of agreeing; and therefore to put a question on agreeing after that on striking ous, would be to put the same question in effect twice over. Not so in questions of amendments between the two Houses. A motion to recede being negatived, does not amount to a posi- tive vote to insist, because there is another alternative, to wit: to adhere:
A bill originating in one House is passed by the other with an amendment A motion in the originating House to agree to the amendment is negatived. Does there result from this a vote of disagreement, or must the question on disagreement be express'y voted? The questions respecting amendments from another House are - 1st, to agree; 2d to disagree; 3d, recede; 4th, insist; 5th, adhere.
1st. To agree.
2d. To disagree.
Either of these concludes the other necessarily, for the positive of either is exactly the equivalent of the negative of the other, and no other alternative remains. On either motion amendments to the amendments may be proposed; e. g., if it be moved to dis- agree, those who are for the amendment have a right to propose amendments, and to make it as perfect as they can, before the question of disagreeing is put.
3d. To recede. 4th. To insist.
You may then either insist or adbere.
You may then either recede or adhere.
5th. To adhere.
You may then either recede or insist.
Consequently the negative of these is not equivalent to a positive vote the other way. It does not raise so necessary an implica- cation as may authorize the Secretary by inference to enter another vote; for two alternatives still remain, either of which may be adopted by the House.
SECTION XXXIX. THE QUESTION.
The question is to be put first on the affirmative and then on the negative side.
After the Speaker has put the affirmative part of the question, any member who has not spoken before to the question may rise and speak before the negative be put; because it is no full question till the negative part be put. Scob., 23; 2 Hats., 73.
But in small matters, and which are, of course, such as receiving petitions, reports, with- drawing motions, reading papers, etc., the Speaker most commonly supposes the consent of the House where no objection is expressed, and does not give them the trouble of putting the question formally. Scob., 22; 2 Hats., 87; 5 Grey, 123; 9 Grey, 301.
SECTION XL
BILLS, THIRD READING.
To prevent bills from being passed by surprise, the House, by a standing order, directs that they shall not be put on their passage before a fixed hour, naming one at which the House is commonly full. Hakew .. 153.
[The usage of the Senate is, not to put bills on their passage till noon]
A bill reported and passed to the third reading cannot on that day be read the third time and passed; because this would be to pass on two readings in the same day.
At the third reading the Clerk reads the bill and delivers it to the Speaker, who states the title, that it is the third time of reading the bill, and that the question will be whether it shall pass? Formerly the Speaker or those who prepared a bill, prepared also a breviate or summary statement of its contents, which the Speaker read when he declared the state of the bill, at the several readings. Sometimes, however, he read the bill itself, especially on Its passage. Hakew., 136, 137, 153; Coke, 22, 115. Latterly, instead of this, he, at the third reading, states the whole contents of the bill, verbatim, only, instead of reading the formal parts "Be it enacted, etc.," he states that "preamble recites so and so - the first section enacts that, etc., the 2d section enacts," etc.
[But in the Senate of the United States both of these formalities are dispensed with; the breviate presenting but an imperfect view of the bill, and being capable of being made to present a false one; and the full statement being a useless waste of time, immedisinly after a full reading by the Clerk, and especially as every member has a printed copy in his hand.]
A bill on the third reading is not to be committed for the matter or body thereof; but to
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receive some particular clause or proviso, it has been sometimes suffered, but as a thing very unusual. Hakew., 126. Thus, 27 El., 1584, a bill was committed on the third reading, having been formerly committed on the second, but it is declared not usual. D'Ewes, 337, col., 2; 414, col., 2.
When an essential provision has been omitted, rather than erase the bill and render it suspicious, they add a clause on a separate paper, engrossed and called a rider, which is read and put to the question three times. Elsynge's Memorials, 53; 6 Grey, 235; 1 Blackst., 183. For example of riders, see 3 Hats., 121, 122, 124, 126. Every one is at liberty to bring in a rider without asking leave. 10 Grey, 52.
It is laid down as a general rule, that amendments proposed at the second reading, shall be twice read, and those proposed at the third reading thrice read; as also all amendments from the other House. Town, col., 19, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28.
It is with great and almost invincible reluctance that amendments are admitted at this reading, which occasion erasures or interlineations. Sometimes a proviso has been cut off from a bill; sometimes erased. 9 Grey, 513.
This is the proper stage for filling up blanks; for if filled up before, and now altered by erasure, it would be peculiarly unsafe.
At this reading the bill is debated afresh, and for the most part is more spoken to at this time than on any of the former readings. Hakew., 153.
The debate on the question whether it should be read a third time, has discovered to its friends and opponents the arguments on which each side relies, and which of these appear to have influence with the House; they have had time to meet them with new arguments, and to put their old ones into new shapes. The former vote has tried the strength of the former opinion, and furnished grounds to estimate the issue; and the question now offered for its passage is the last occasion which is ever to be offered for carrying or rejecting it.
When the debate is ended, the Speaker, holding the bill in his hand, puts the question for its passage by saying, "Gentlemen, all of you who are of opinion that this bill shall pass, say aye;" and after the answer of the ayes, " All those of the contrary opinion, say no." Hakew., 154.
After the bill is passed there can be no further alteration of it in any point. Hakew., 159.
SECTION XLL
DIVISION OF THE HOUSE.
The affirmative and negative of the question having been both put and answered, the Speaker declares whether the yeas or nays have it by the sound, if he be himself satisfied, and it stands as the judgment of the House. But if he be not himself satisfied which voice is the greater, or if before any other member comes into the House, or before any new motion is made (for it is too late after that), any member shall rise and declare himself dissatis- fied with the Speaker's decision, then the Speaker is to divide the House. Scob., 24; 2 Hats., 140.
When the House of Commons is divided, the one party goes forth, and the other remains in the House. This has made it important which go forth and which remain; because the latter gain all the indolent, the indifferent and inattentive. Their general rule therefore, is. that those who give their vote for the preservation of the orders of the House, shall stay in; and those who are for introducing any new matter or alteration, or proceeding contrary to the established course, are to go out. But this rule is subject to many exceptions and modifications. 2 Hats., 134; 1 Rush, p. 3, fol. 92; Scob., 43, 52; Co., 12, 116; D'Eures, 505, col. 1; Mem. in Hakew., 25, 20, as will appear by the following statement of who go forth.
Petition that it be received*
Ayes.
Read
Lie on the table
Noes.
. Rejected after refusal to lie on the table
Referred to committee for further proceeding Ares.
Bill, that it bo brought in.
Bead first or second time.
Ares.
Engrossed or read a third time
Proceedings on every other stage
Committed
ยท Noes. 10rey, 805.
.
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MANUAL OF PARLIAMENTARY PRACTICE.
To committee of the whole Noes.
To select committee Ares.
Report of bill to lie on table Noes.
Be now read Ayes.
Be taken into consideration three months hence. (30, P. J. 251
Amendments to be read a second time. Noes.
Clause offered on report of bill be read a second time. ) Ayes.
For receiving a clause 834
With amendments be engrossed. 895
That a bill be now read a third time Noes. 898
Receive a rider.
Pass .
Be printed
Committees. That A take the chair
To agree to the whole or any part of report
That the House do now resolve into committee
Noes.
291
Speaker. That he now leave the chair, after order to go into committee. That he issue warrant for new writ
Member. That none be absent without leave
Witness. That he be further examined. Ayes. 344
Previous question. Noes.
Blanks. That they be filled with the largest sum.
Amendments. That words stand part of. Ares.
Lords. That their amendment be read a second time.
Noes.
Messenger be received
Orders of day to be now read if before 2 o'clock.
Ares.
If after 2 o'clock
Noes.
If after 4 o'clock Noes.
Over a sitting day (unless a previous resolution). Ayes.
Over the 30th of January. Noes.
For sitting on Sunday, or any other day not being a sitting day .. Ayes.
The one party being gone forth, the Speaker names two tellers from the affirmative and two from the negative side, who first count those sitting in the House and report the num- ber to the Speaker. Then they place themselves within the door, two on each side, and count those who went forth as they come in, and report the number to the Speaker. Mem. in Hakew., 26.
A mistake in the report of the tellers may be rectified after the report made. 2 Hats., 145, note.
[But in both Houses of Congress all these intricacies are avoided. The ayes first rise, and are counted standing in their places by the President or Speaker. Then they sit, and the noes rise and are counted in like manner.]
[In Senate, if they are equally divided, the Vice President announces his opinion, which decides.]
[The Constitution, however, has directed that "the yeas and nays of the members of either House on any question shall, at the desire of one-fifth of those present, be entered on the journal." And again; that in all cases of reconsidering a bill disapproved by the President, and returned with his objections, "the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be en- tered on the journals of each House respectively."]
[By the 16th and 17th rules of the Senate, when the yeas and nays shall be called for by one-fifth of the members present, each member called upon shall, unless for special reasons he be excused by the Senate, declare openly, and without debate, his assent or dissent to the question. In taking the yeas and nays and upon the call of the House, the names of the members shall be taken alphabetically.]
[When the yeas and nays shall be taken upon any question in pursuance of the above rule no member shall be permitted, under any circumstances whatever, to vote after the de cision is announced from the Chair.]
[When it is proposed to take the vote by fras and nays, the President or Speaker states that "the question is whether, e. g., the bill shall pass - that it is proposed that the yeas aud nays shall be entered on the journal. Those, therefore, who desire it, will rise." If he
200
Ayes. 256
Adjournment. Till the next sitting day, if before 4 o'clock Ares.
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finds and declares that one-fifth have risen, he then states that " those who are of the opin- ion that the bill shall pass are to answer in the affirmative; those of a contrary opinion in the negative." The Clerk then calls over the names alphabetically, notes the yea or ray of each, and gives'the list to the President or Speaker, who declares the result. In the Senate, if there be an equal division, the Secretary calls on the Vice President and notes his affirm- ative or negative, which becomes the decision of the House.]
In the House of Commons every member must give his vote, the one way or the other (Scob., 24), as it is not permitted to any one to withdraw who is in the House when the question is put, nor is any one to be told in the division who was not in when the question was put. 2 Hats., 140.
This last position is always true when the vote is by yeas and nays; where the negative as well as affirmative of the question is stated by the President at the same time, and the vote of both sides begins and proceeds pari passu. It is true also when the question is put in the usual way, if the negative has also been put; but if it has not, the member entering, or any other member, may speak, and even propose amendments, by which the debate may be opened again, and the question be greatly deferred. And as some who have an- swered aye may have been changed by the new arguments, the affirmative must be put over again. If, then. the member entering may, by speaking a few words, occasion a repetition of a question, it would be useless to deny it on his simple call for it.
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