USA > New York > The documentary history of the state of New York, Vol. III pt 2 > Part 11
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All which, being my best Thoughts . Recollection and most mature Deliberation, are nevertheles humbly submitted to your Excellency, by
Your Excellency's most Obedint and most humble Servants WN SMITH Att Gen !.
New York 28th May
1752-
To His Excellency the Hononrable
George Clinton Captain General
and Governor in Chief of the Province of New York &Ga
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MANOR OF LIVINGSTON.
REPORT OF THE SURVEYOR GENERAL ON R. LIVINGSTON'S PETITION.
To his Excellency the Honourable GEORGE CLINTON Captain General & Governour in Chief of the Province of New York and Territories thereon depending in America Vice Admiral of the same and Admiral of the White Squadron of his Majesties Fleet.
MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY
In obedience to your Excellency's order in Council referring to me & the Attorney Generall the Petition of Robert Livingston junr that we separately report thereon what we shall think proper to be don I humbly conceive that the reference to me as Surveyor General must only be on one single point viz whether ye Mannor of Livingston be within the Boundary of the Province of New York I can add nothing to what has been reported to your Excellency with respect to the Eastern Boundaries of this Province by a Committee of the Council to whom a claim made by the Government of New Hampshire was referred For the reasons given in the report of that Committee I am of opinion that the lands claim'd by the Government of the Massachusets Bay within the Mannor of Livingstone are evidently within the Boundaries of the Province of New York which is humbly Submitted by
Your Excellency's Most obedient and most humble servant CADWALLADER COLDEN.
(Endorsed)
The report on ye order of the Govern" in Council on ye 4th May 1752 upon ye Petition of Robert Livingston Jun- By Mr Colden Surver Gent delivered. to me 5 June Read In Council 34 July 1752 and referred to a Comm'ee
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REPORT OF THE COUNCIL ON THE ABOVE.
MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY
In obedience to your Excellency's Order in Council of the 3d day of July last, Referring to a Committee thereof, the Petitions of Robert Livingston Jun' Esqr and of the Owners of a certain Tract of Land called Westenhook, Complaining of new Claims and Encroachments made upon their Lands, by the Inhabitants of the Massachusets Bay ; And also the Surveyor General's and the Attorney General's Reports on the said two Petitions. The Committe having maturely weighed and considered of the same, humbly beg leave to Report to your Excelleney :
1++ That they apprehend the Claims of the Massachusets-Bay to the Manor of Livingston, or the said Tract of Land called Westenhook, cannot be well founded, Because they find, That the Dutch claimed the Colony of New Netherlandt, as extending from Cape Cod to Cape Cornelius, now called Cape Henlopen, Westward of Deleware Bay, along the Sea Coast and as far back into the Country as any of the Rivers within those Limits extend ; and that they were actually possessed of Conectient River, long before any other European People knew any thing of the Existence of such a River, and were not only possessed of the Mouth of it, where they had a Fort and Garrison, but discovered the river above a hundred miles up ; had their People trading there ; and purchased of the Natives almost all the Lands on both sides of the said River.
2d That Governour Stuyvesant, the Dutch Governor of the said Province, by his letter dated the 2d of September 1664 New Stile, In answer to a letter from Governour Richard Nicholls of the 3; Angust preceeding, demanding the Surrender of all the Forts and Places of Strength possessed by the Dutch under his (Governor Stuyvesant's) Command, Writes as follows " Moreover " its without dispute, and acknowledged by all the World, that " our Predecessors by virtue of the Commission and Patent of " the said Lords the States General, have without Controul and " peaceably, (the contrary never coming to our knowledge) " enjoyed Fort Orange about 48 or 50 years ; and Manhatans
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" about 41 or 12 years ; the South River 10 years ; and the Fresh " River about 36 years." Which last mentioned River, the Committee find to be the same that is now called Connecticut River.
3d That the said Dutch Governour Stuyvesant did in the year 1664, surrender all the Country which the Dutch did then , possess, to King Charles the Second ; and that the States General made a Cession thereof by the Treaty of Breda in the year 1667. That the Dutch reconquered part of this Province in 1673 ; and surrendered and absolutely yielded it to King Charles the second in 1673|1, by the Treaty of London; and that in the year 1674 King Charles granted to .the Duke of York, all the Land between Connecticut River and Delaware Bay, the whole of those Lands being part of their former Colony of New Netherland.
1th That the Duke of York in his several Commissions to Major Edmond Andros on the 1 st of July 1674, and to Governour Dongan on the 30th September 1682 among other Descriptions of the Boundaries of this Province mentions, All the Land from the West side of Connecticut River to the East side of Deleware Bay. That their Majestys King William and Queen Mary, by their Commission bearing date the fourth day of January in the first year of their Majesty's Reign, appointed Henry Sloughter to be Governour of the province of New York and Territories depending thereon ; the Boundaries whercof to Connecticut River on the East, were notorious by the Grant and other Com- missions aforesaid, and many other Grants and Commissions relating to the same.
5th That the Committee apprehend, Connecticut River con- tinned the East Bounds of this Province until the 28th of March 1700, When by King William's Confirmation of an Agreement between this Province and Connecticut, the Western Bounds of that Colony were setled at twenty miles from Hudson's River : And they cannot find any other Alteration in the Eastern Bounds of this Province, and have no Reason to believe any other was made before or since that time.
Gtn That King James the first by Letters Patent bearing date the 3d of November in the 18th year of his Reign, granted nnto
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the Council of Plymouth from forty to forty eight degrees of North Latitude inclusive : In which there is a Recital to this purpose " Now forasmuch as the King has been certainly given " to understand, by divers good Subjects that have for these " many years frequented those Coasts and Territories, between " the degrees of 40 and 48, that there is no other Subjects of any "Christian King or State, or by an Authority from their " Soveraigns Lords or Princes, actually in possession of any the " said Lands or Precincts, whereby any right, claim, interest or " title, may or ought by that means to accrue or belong to them " &ca" And also a Provisoe in these Words " Provided always " that the said Lands Islands or any of the Premisses by the " said Letters Patent intended or meant to be granted, were not " then actually possessed or inhabited by any other Christian " Power or State." Which Patent the Committee conceive could not vest any thing in the Grantees, by reason of the said Recital and Condition upon which it was granted, part of the Premisses being then actually possessed by the Dutch, and most of the said Colony of New Netherland being within the Bounds thereof.
7th That the Council of Plymouth by their Deed dated the 19th of March the third year of King Charles the first, granted to Sir Henry Rosswell and others, part of what was supposed to be granted by the said Letters Patent, which Grant from the said Council of Plymouth, the Committee take to be void as founded on the said void Patent.
8th That the said Sir Henry Rosswell and others, obtained a Grant and Confirmation thereof, from the Crown, under the great Seal of England, dated the 4th of March in the fourth year of King Charles the first, within which Grant and Confirmation, the Province of Massachusetts-Bay is included ; which Grant and Confirmation was adjudged void in the High Court of Chancery of England in the year 1684. And the Committee are of opinion that nothing to the Westward of Connecticut River could pass by that Grant and Confirmation, for that his Majesty could not have had an Intention to grant the same, it being then possessed by the Dutch as before mentioned.
9th That the Committee conceive the Inhabitants of Massachu. sets Bay, can claim nothing at present but what is granted them
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by their last charter in 1691 ; all their other Grants and charters, being either void of themselves, or declared so in the chancery of England.
10th That the Bounds granted by this charter, are Westward as far as the Colonies of Rhode Island Connecticut, and the Naraganset Country ; which words being in the case of a Grant from the Crown, the Committee conceive cannot extend their Bounds further than to Connectient Colony, and therefore not to Connecticut River ; And much less to the Westward of it because Connecticut itself at the time of that Charter, did not in the Know- ledge of the Crown extend Westward of that River ; nor did till nine years after, when by the Royal approbation the Agreement be- tween this Provinee and that Colony taking place, ( which was not to be in force till such Approbation) the Bounds of that Colony were setled as is before mentioned ; and the Committee conceive it to be against reason to suppose that the Crown intended by the said charter to grant any part of the Province of New York under the then immediate Government of the Crown, without express mention thereof in the charter, and without notification to Henry Sloughter then Governour of this Province, that the Crown had granted such a part of what was before within his Jurisdiction, by their Majesty's Commission aforesaid to him.
11th That both the Patents under which the Petitioners claim, the Committee find were granted under the great Seal of this Province, that of the Manor of Livingston in 1686, and that of Westenhook in 1705 : And that the Lands contained in the said Grants are, the Committee apprehend, within the Jurisdiction of this Province, they being both West of Connecticut River.
12th That the Committee are of opinion, the Attempts of the Inhabitants of the Massachusets-Bay, to make Encroachments upon any Lands granted by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of New-York, or upon any Lands within the Jurisdiction of this Province, are disrespectful to his Majesty's Authority, tend to the disturbance of his Subjects of this Province, and may be the cause of great Mischiefs and Disorders.
13th That the Steps taken by the said Inhabitants, even were the Bounds of this Province doubtful and unsetled, are Intrusions and disrespectful to his Majesty's Authority.
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And lastly the Committee are of opinion, that a Copy of so much of this Report, as shall be approved of by your Excellen- cy and the Council, be transmitted to the Lieutenant Governour of the Province of Massachusets-Bay, requesting that he would take effectual measures, that all encroachments and Disturbances by the People of that Colony on his Majesty's Subjects of this province, be stayed, and that he would lay this matter before the next General Court, that they may inform your Excellency by what warrant they claim or exercise any Right to Soil or Jurisdiction, Westward of Connecticut River ; that the same may be considered, and such steps taken, towards removing all Causes of Encroachments or Disturbances for the future as may be agreeable to Equity and Justice : To the End that good understanding may be preserved, which ought to subsist between fellow Subjects and neighbouring Provinces.
All which is nevertheless humbly submitted By order of the Committee JAMES DE LANCEY, Chairman.
New York 28th February 1753.
LT. GOV. PHIPS TO GOV. CLINTON.
Coston March 23d, 1753.
I have received your Excellency's Letter of the 6th of March with the Papers accompanying it, Referring to the Challenges your Governmt makes to Lands claimed by this Province : The affair is of great Moment, and I shall lay it before the General Assembly of this Province, which will meet the 28th Instant, And I shall use my utmost Endeavour that every thing may be done consistent with Justice, & that may promote a good Harmo- ny between the two Governments, Which I look upon as a matter that may tend much to the promoting his Majtys Honour & Interest in these Colonies, & defeat our French neighbors of any Expectations they may form out of our Altercasions among our selves.
I am with great respect,
Your Excellencys most humble & most Obedient Servant
His Excy Govern' Clinton.
S. PHIPS.
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MANOR OF LIVINGSTON.
ANOTHER PETITION OF THE PROPRIETOR OF LIVINGSTON MANOR.
To his Excellency The Honorable GEORGE CLINTON Captain General and Governour in Chief in and over the province of New York and the Territories thereon depending in America Vice Admiral of the Same and Admiral of the White Squadron of his Majesty's Fleet-
In Council.
The Memorial of Robert Livingston Junr of the Mannor of Livingston in the County of Albany and province of New York.
HUMBLY SHEWETH
That your Memorialist begs Leave to remind your Excellency, that on or about the sixteenth day of April, in the Year of our Lord one thousand Seven hundred and fifty two, Your Memo- rialist preferred his humble petition unto Your Excellency setting forth his Title to the said Mannor under his late Majesty King James the Second, which from the Time of his said Majesty's Grant, hath peaceably devolved to him thro' his Ancestors who as well as your Memorialist, have always duly paid their Quit-rents, and Taxes for the Support of his Majesty's Government in this province, in a Confidence of their Securely holding the said Tract of Land under its protection And that your Memorialists Title to the said Traet continued unques- tioned, until your Memorialists possession of the same was unlawfully disturbed, by persons inhabiting in the Massachusets Bay Colony, in Conjunction with some of your Memorialist's Tenants, in the Manner and under the pretences set forth in the said Petition Whereupon your Memorialist (as he conceived his Title unto the said Tract of Land under this Government to be legal and valid) prayed your Excellency's protection in the Manner in the said Petition mentioned.
And your Memorialist further begs Leave to remind your Excellency, That your Excellency was thereupon pleased, in favour to your Memorialist, by an Order of your Excellency in
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Council of the third day of July last, to refer the Subject matter of your said Memorialists petition, to a Committee of this Honourable Board who, in Consequence of such your Excellency's Reference, did, on the twenty Eighth day of February last, as your Memorialist hath been informed, among other things. make Report unto your Excellency, " That they apprehended the " Claim of the said Massachusets Bay Colony, to the said Mannor " of Livingston, was not well founded," for the reasons contained in the said Report.
That your Memorialist hath been informed, That on or about the twenty Second day of November last, One William Bull and fifty Seven other persons (as was pretended) of which number many (as was also pretended) were Tenants of your Memorialist, petitioned the General Court of the said Massachusets Bay Colony for a Grant of a certain Tract of Land, included within the said Mannor of Livingston and described by the said petitioners as follows " Beginning at the Top of the first great " Mountain, west of Sheffield, running northwesterly with the " General Course of the Mountain about nine or Ten Miles, and " thence turning and running West about six Miles, thence " running Southerly to the North Line of Connecticut, out, " thence running Easterly to the first mentioned Boundary."
That thereupon, as your Memorialist hath been informed, a Committee was appointed by the said General Court to take under Consideration the petition of the said William Bull and others, Who made Report that they "wore of opinion that a " Committee should be appointed by the said General Court to " repair to the Lands petitioned for, and to make full Inquiry " into the Circumstances thereof, What number of Settlements " were begun, the Number of Acres as near as they should be " able to judge in each Settlement, the names of the Settlers, the " Value of each Settlement under all its Circumstances, and also " the Quality and Quantity of the province Lands comprehended " within the Bounds of the whole Tract, upon which there had " as yet been no Intruders " and that the Committee should make Report thereof at the following Sessions, in order to a Con- veyance of the said Lands to the setlers or such person as would purchase the same Which said Report being read and accepted in
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Council on the thirteenth day of December last it was ordered, " That Joseph Dwight Esqr with such as should be appointed " by the honourable House should be a Committee for the " Services above mentioned, And being sent down to the House of Representatives it was read & Concurred with, and Coll Bradford & Capt. Livermore were joined with the said Joseph Dwight Esqr in the Committee. Which last mentioned Petition was preferred, and the proceedings of the said General Court were had thereon during the Time your Memorialists said petition was under the Consideration of the abovementioned Committee of this Honourable Board, and were as your Memorialist humbly conceives, the Grounawork of all those proceedings on the part of the Massachusets Bay Colony, whereby your Memorialist hath, since the said William Bulls petition was preferred, been frequently disturbed and interrupted, in his possession of a great part of the Lands in the said Mannor.
That your Excelleney, as your Memorialist hath been informed, was pleased (by the Advice of this Honourable Board) to send, to His Honour the Lieutenant Gor of the Massachusets Bay Colony, a Copy of the abovementioned Report of the Committee of the Honourable Board, and that the same was by him laid before the General Court of the said Province, by whom a Committee was appointed to consider the same, Who being surprized at the "extraordinary (tho legal) Title in favour of " New York to a Valuable part " of that Colony Reported that they were of opinion " that Commissioners shou'd be appointed " to meet at some convenient Time and place, which the said "General Court might appoint, to Confer with Commissioners " that might be appointed by the Government of New York, and " with them to agree upon measures for setling the Bounds of " the two provinces in an amicable manner, to the End that " good understanding might be preserved which ought to subsist " between fellow Subjects and neighbouring provinces, and that "a Letter might be wrote to your Excellency desiring that " Commissioners on behalf of the Government of New York " might be appointed & fully authorized for the purpose afore- " said " Which Report being accepted by both houses, and consented to by the said Lieutenant Governour became a
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Compleat Act of that Government, Whence your Memorialist humbly conceives that the Committee appointed, by the sd General Court, upon the first mentioned Report of a Committee of the said General Court, were deprived of all the power wherewith they were invested by their appointment.
That, as your Memorialist hath been informed a Copy of the last mentioned Report was sent to your Excellency, and referred by your Excellency in Council, to a Committee of this Honourable Board who on the first inst made Report thereon, and also that a Copy of the Second Report of the said Committee of this Honourable Board was sent by your Excellency to the said Lieutenant Governour of the Massachusetts Bay Colony.
And your Memorialist further sheweth unto your Excellency, That as the Matter of your Memorialist's petition became a Subject of the Consideration of both provinces, Your Memo- rialist hoped to continue unmolested in his possession of the Lands claimed by the Massachusetts Bay Colony & included within his Mannor for that your Memorialist conceived that the Resolution of the Government of that Colony to appoint Com- missioners to meet with such persons as should be commissioned by the Legislature of this Province in order to settle the Boundaries, of the two provinces, would necessarily put a stop to all proceedings grounded on the above mentioned petition of the said William Bull and others, as in Justice it ought. It being unreasonable (as your Memorialist humbly conceives) that the Government of the Massachusets Bay Colony should take any steps, towards possessing themselves of the Lands in dispute in Opposition to the Government of this province after they have enacted that Commissioners shall be appointed to settle the Boundaries between the two provinces in Conjunction with such persons, as shall be appointed for that purpose by the Government of this province, and also for that your Memorialist conceived it to be inconsistent with the Wisdom of any Gor- ernment to take such steps, as having a natural Tendency unnecessarily to disturb & destroy the Happiness and Tranquility of his Majesty's Subjects in both provinces.
But your Memorialist begs leave further to shew unto your Excellency, that contrary to your Memorialists Expectation in
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the premises, and since the Act of the General Court of the Massachuset's Bay Colony to appoint Commissioners in Con- junotion with this province, to settle the Boundaries between the two provinces, Your Memorialist received a Letter from the abovementioned Joseph Dwight Esqr dated at the abovesaid Town of Sheffield the seventh day of May instant signed by the said Joseph Dwight on the Behalf of the Committee appointed by the said General Court of the Massachusets bay Colony upon the Report made on the petition of the said William Bull and others, requesting your Memorialists to meet the said Committee at three o'Clock in the afternoon of the next day, which your Memorialist accordingly did At which Time the said Joseph Dwight (being Chairman of the Committee) told your Memorialist that the Government of the Massachusetts Bay had for a long Time neglected the Settlement of their West Bounds, they lying very remote from Boston, But that they had now appointed them as a Committee to view and value the Lands petitioned for by the said William Bull and others and lying a Taquanack, and to make their report thereon to the General Court of the Massa- chusets Bay Colony at their next Sessions, and then shewed to your Memorialist a Copy of the Order of the said General Court, appointing the said Joseph Dwight Esq" Coll Bradford and Capt Livermore to be a Committee for that purpose and also a Copy of the petition of the said William Bull and others.
That your Memorialist informed the said Committee, that he claimed most of the Lands mentioned in the petition of the said William Bull and others, and had a good Title to them by Indian Deeds, and patent under the Crown and therefore desired them not to value or dispose of those Lands. Upon which the said Capt Livermore asked your Memorialist, under what Government your Memorialist claimed those Lands, and being told that he claimed them under the Government of New York, the said Committee signified their Inclination to be informed of the Right of this province to those Lands. Which nevertheless your memorialist conceives the said Committee could not be ignorant of. For that altho the Chairman of the said Committee declared, that he had never seen the Report of the Committee of this Honourable Board setting forth the Title of this province to those
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Lands, among Others, yet the other two Members of the Com- mittee confessed they had seen it, And upon your Memorialists producing a Copy thereof to the said Chairman, he made some Objection thereto, too trifling to deserve your Excellency's Atten- tion, which however your Memorialist with no great difficulty removed.
That the said Committee also informed your Memorialist that they had heard of the Report of the Cominittee and Order of the General Court thereon for the appointment of Commissioners to settle the Boundaries between the two provinces, and of the Letter from the said Lieutenant Governour to your Excellency, inclosing a Copy of the same, but declared that they had never seen them. Whereupon your Memorialist read to them a copy of the said Report & order, and enquired of them the Reason of their being sent on such an Errand by their General Court, while they were solliciting the Government of this province, to join them in the appointment of Commissioners to settle the said Boundaries. To which the said Coll Bradford and Capt Livermore answered, that as they had been appointed a Committee for the purpose abovementioned long before your Excellency's first Letter containing the first Report of the Committee of this Honourable Board came to Boston, and had received no con- tradictory Orders, they thought themselves obliged to pursue the End of their appointment. But believed if their general Court had not been dissolved so soon as it was, they would have had Orders not to proceed.
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