USA > Wisconsin > The Wisconsin blue book 1893 > Part 12
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When the debate is ended, the Speaker, holding the bill in his hand, puts the question for its passage by saying, "Gentlemen, all of you who are of opinion that this bill shall pass, say aye;" and after the answer of the ayes, "All those of the contrary opinion, say no." Hakew., 154.
After the bill is passed there can be no further alteration of it in any point. Hakew., 159.
SECTION XLI.
DIVISION OF THE HOUSE.
The affirmative and negative of the question having been both put and answered, the Speaker declares whether the yeas or nays have it by the sound, if he be himself satisfied, and it stands as the judgment of the House. But if he be not himself satisfied which voice is the greater, or if before any other member comes into the House, or before any new motion is made (for it is too late after that), any member shall rise and declare himself dissatis- fied with the Speaker's decision, then the Speaker is to divide the House. Scob., 24; 2 Hats., 140.
When the House of Commons is divided, the one party goes forth, and the other remains in the House. This has made it important which go forth and which remain; because the latter gain all the indolent, the indifferent and inattentive. Their general rule therefore, is, that those who give their vote for the preservation of the orders of the House, shall stay in; and those who are for introducing any new matter or alteration, or proceeding contrary to the established course, are to go out. But this rule is subject to many exceptions and modifications. 2 Hats., 131; 1 Rush, p. 3, fol. 92; Scob., 43, 52; Co., 12, 116; D'Ewes, 505, col. 1; Mem. in Hakew., 25, 29, as will appear by the following statement of who go forth.
Petition that it be received*
. Ayes.
Read
Lie on the table
Noes.
Rejected after refusal to lie on the table
Referred to committee for further proceeding. Ayes. Bill, that it be brought in.
Read first or second time
Ayes.
Engrossed or read a third time
Proceedings on every other stage
Committed
· Noes. 9 Gre; , 865.
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MANUAL OF PARLIAMENTARY PRACTICE.
To committee of the whole Noes.
To select committee Ayes.
Report of bill to lie on table Noes.
Be now read
Ayes
Be taken into consideration three months hence 30, P. J. 251
Amendments to be read a second time.
Noes.
Clause offered on report of bill be read a second time. For receiving a clause.
334
With amendments be engrossed ..
395
That a bill be now read a third time Receive a rider
Noes. 308
Pass .
Be printed
Committees. That A take the chair
To agree to the whole or any part of report
That the House do now resolve into committee
Speaker. That he now leave the chair, after order to go into committee.
That he issue warrant for new writ
Member. That none be absent without leave
Witness. That he be further examined.
Ayes. 344
Previous question. Noes.
Blanks. That they be filled with the largest sum.
Amendments. That words stand part of.
Ayes.
Lords. That their amendment be read a second time.
Noes.
Messenger be received
Orders of day to be now read if before 2 o'clock.
Ayes.
If after 2 o'clock.
Noes.
Adjournment. Till the next sitting day, if before 4 o'clock. Ayes.
If after 4 o'clock Noes.
Over a sitting day (unless a previous resolution) Ayes.
Over the 30th of January Noes.
For sitting on Sunday, or any other day not being a sitting day Ayes.
The one party being gone forth, the Speaker names two tellers from the affirmative and two from the negative side, who first count those sitting in the House and report the num- ber to the Speaker. Then they place themselves within the door, two on each side, and count those who went forth as they come in, and report the number to the Speaker. Mem. in Hakew., 26.
A mistake in the report of the tellers may be rectified after the report made. 2 Hats., 145, note.
[But in both Houses of Congress all these intricacies are avoided. The ayes first rise, and are counted standing in their places by the President or Speaker. Then they sit, and the noes rise and are counted in like manner.]
[In Senate, if they are equally divided, the Vice President announces his opinion, which decides.]
[The Constitution, however, has directed that "the yeas and nays of the members of either House on any question shall, at the desire of one-fifth of those present, be entered on the journal." And again; that in all cases of reconsidering a bill disapproved by the President, and returned with his objections, "the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be en- tered on the journals of each House respectively."]
[By the 16th and 17th rules of the Senate, when the yeas and nays shall be called for by one-fifth of the members present, each member called upon shall, unless for special reasons he be excused by the Senate, declare openly, and without debate, his assent or dissent to the question. In taking the yeas and nays and upon the call of the House, the names of the members shall be taken alphabetically.]
[When the yeas and nays shall be taken upon any question in pursuance of the above rule no member shall be permitted, under any circumstances whatever, to vote after the de- cision is announced from the Chair.]
[When it is proposed to take the vote by yeas and nays, the President or Speaker states that "the question is whether, e. g., the bill shall pass-that it is proposed that the yeas and nays shall be entered on the journal. Those, therefore, who desire it, will rise." If he
. ) Ayes.
260
Ayes. 256
Noes. 291
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WISCONSIN BLUE BOOK.
finds and declares that one-fifth have risen, he then states that " those who are of the opin- ion that the bill shall pass are to answer in the affirmative; those of a contrary opinion in the negative." The Clerk then calls over the names alphabetically, notes the yea or nay of each, and gives the list to the President or Speaker, who declares the result. In the Senate, if there be an equal division, the Secretary calls on the Vice President and notes his affirm- ative or negative, which becomes the decision of the House.]
In the House of Commons every member must give his vote, the one way or the other (Scob., 24), as it is not permitted to any one to withdraw who is in the House when the question is put, nor is any one to be told in the division who was not in when the question was put. 2 Hats., 140.
This last position is always true when the vote is by yeas and nays; where the negative as well as affirmative of the question is stated by the President at the same time, and the vote of both sides begins and proceeds pari passu. It is true also when the question is put in the usual way, if the negative has also been put; but if it has not, the member entering, or any other member, may speak, and even propose amendments, by which the debate may be opened again, and the question be greatly deferred. And as some who have an- swered aye may have been changed by the new arguments, the affirmative must be put over again. If, then, the member entering may, by speaking a few words, occasion a repetition of a question, it would be useless to deny it on his simple call for it.
While the House is telling, no member may speak or move out of his place, for if any mistake be suspected it must be told again. Mem. in Hakew., 26; 2 Hats., 143.
If any difficulty arises in point of order during the division, the Speaker is to decide per- emptorily, subject to the future censure of the House, if irregular. He sometimes permits old experienced members to assist him with their advice, which they do sitting in their seats, covered to avoid the appearance of debate; but this can only be with the Speaker's leave, else the division might last several hours. 2 Hats., 143.
The voice of the majority decides; for the lex majoris partis is the law of all councils, elections, etc., where not otherwise expressly provided. Hakew., 93. But if the House be equally divided, " semper presumatur pro negante;" that is, the former law is not to be changed but by a majority. Towns., col. 134.
[But in the Senate of the United States, the Vice President decides when the House is divided. Const. U. S., I, 3.]
When, from counting the House on a . division, it appears that there is not a quorum, the matter continues exactly in the state in which it was before the division, and must be re- sumed at that point on any future day. 2 Hats., 126.
1606, May 1, on a question whether a member having said yea may afterwards sit and change his opinion, a precedent was remembered by the Speaker, of Mr. Morris, attorney of the wards, in 39 Eliz., who in like case changed his opinion. Mem. Hakew., 27.
SECTION XLII. TITLES.
After the bill has passed, and not before, the title may be amended, and is to be fixed by a question; and the bill is then sent to the other House.
SECTION XLIII. RECONSIDERATION.
[When a question has been once made and carried in the affirmative or negative, it shall be in order for any member of the majority to move for the reconsideration thereof; but no motion for the reconsideration of any vote shall be in order after a bill, resolution, mes- sage, report, amendment, or motion upon which the vote was taken shall have gone out of the possession of the Senate announcing their decision; nor shall any motion for reconsid- pration be in order unless made on the same day on which the vote was taken, or within the I wo next days of the actual session of the Senate thereafter .* Rule 20.]
[1798, Jan. A bill on its second reading being amended and on the question whether it shall be read a third time negatived, was restored by a decision to reconsider that question. Here the votes of negative and reconsideration, like positive and negative quantities in an equation, destroy one another, and are as if they were expunged from the journal. Conse- quently the bill is open for amendment, just so far as it was the moment preceding the question for the third reading; that is to say, all parts of the bill are open for amendment except those on which votes have been already taken in its present stage. So, also, it may be recommitted.]
. This part of the rule has been added since the Manual was compiled.
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MANUAL OF PARLIAMENTARY PRACTICE
[* The rule permitting a reconsideration of a question affixing to it no limitation of time or circumstance, it may be asked whether there is no limitation? If, after the vote, tlie paper on which it is passed has been parted with, there can be no reconsideration; as if a. vote has been for the passage of a bill, and the bill has been sent to the other house. But where the paper remains, as on a bill rejected, when, or under what circumstances, does it cease to be susceptible of reconsideration? This remains to be settled; unless, a sense that the right of reconsideration is a right to waste the time of the House in repeated agita- tions of the same question, so that it shall never know when a question is done with, should induce them to reform this anomalous proceeding.]
In Parliament, a question once carried cannot be questioned again at the same session, but must stand as the judgment of the House. Towns., col. 67; Mem. in Hakew., 33. And a bill once rejected, another of the same substance cannot be brought in again the same session. Hakew., 158; 6 Grey, 392. But this does not extend to prevent putting the same question in different stages of a bill; because every stage of a bill submits the whole and every part of it to the opinion of the House, as open for amendment, either by insertion or omission though the same amendment has been accepted or rejected in a former stage. So in reports of committees, e. g., report of an address, the same question is before the House and open for free discussion. Towns., col. 26; 2 Hats., 98, 100, 101. So orders of the House, or instructions to committee, may be discharged. So a bill, begun in one house, and sent to the other, and there rejected, may be renewed again in that other, passed an' sent back. Ib., 92; 3 Hats., 161. Or if, instead of being rejected, they read it once and lar it aside, or amend it, and put it off a month, they may order in another to the same effect, with the same or different title. Hakew., 97, 98.
Divers expedients are used to correct the effects of this rule; as by passing an explana- tory act, if anything has been omitted or ill expressed (3 Hats., 278), or an act to enforce, and make more effectual an act, etc., or to rectify mistakes in act, etc., or a committee on one bill may be instructed to receive a clause to rectify the mistakes of another. Thus, June 24, 1685, a clause was inserted in a bill, for rectifying a mistake committed by a clerk in engrossing a bill of supply. 2 Hats., 194, 6. Or the session may be closed for one, two, three, or more days, and a new one commenced. But then all matters depending must be finished, or they fall, and are to begin de novo. 3 Hats., 94, 98. Or a part of the subject may be taken up by another bill, or taken up in a different way. 6 Grey, 304, 316.
And in cases of the last magnitude, this rule has not been so strictly and verbally ob- served as to stop indispensable proceedings altogether. 2 Hats., 92, 98. Thus when the ad- dress on the preliminaries of peace in 1782 had been lost by a majority of one, on account of the importance of the question, and smallness of the majority, the same question in sub- stance, though with some words not in the first, and which might change the opinion of some members, was brought on again and carried, as the motives for it were thought to outweigh the objection of form. 2 Hats., 99, 100.
A second bill may be passed to continue an act of the same session, or to enlarge the time limited for its execution. 2 Hats., 95, 98. This is not in contradiction to the first act.
SECTION XLIV.
BILLS SENT TO THE OTHER HOUSE.
[All bills passed in the Senate, shall, before they are sent to the House of Representa- tives, be examined by a committee, consisting of three members, whose duty shall be to examine all bills, amendments, resolutions or motions, before they go out of the possession of the Senate and to make report that they are correctly engrossed, which report shall be entered on the journal. Rule 33.]
A bill from the other House is sometimes ordered to lie on the table. 2 Hats., 97.
When bills passed in one house and sent to the other, are grounded on special facts re- quiring proof, it is usual, either by message or at a conference, to ask the grounds and evi- dence; and this evidence, whether arising out of papers, or from the examination of witnesses, is immediately communicated. 3 Hats., 48.
SECTION XLV.
AMENDMENTS BETWEEN THE HOUSES.
When either house, e. g., the House of Commons, sends a bill to the other, the other may pass it with amendments. The regular progression in this case is, that the commons disagree to the amendment; the lords insist on it; the commons insist on their disagree-
· This rule now fixes the limitation.
5
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WISCONSIN BLUE BOOK.
ment; the lords adhere to their amendment; the commons adhere to their disagreement. The term of insisting may be repeated as often as they choose to keep the question open. But the first adherence by either renders it necessary for the other to recede or adhere also; when the matter is usually suffered to fall. 10 Grey, 148. Latterly, however, there are in- stances of their having gone to a second adherence. There must be an absolute conclusion of the subject somewhere, or otherwise transactions between the houses would become endless. 3 Hats., 268, 270. The term of insisting, we are told by Sir John Trevor, was then (1679) newly introduced into parliamentary usage by the lords. 7 Grey, 94. It was certainly a happy innovation, as it multiplies the opportunities of trying modifications which may bring the houses to concurrence. Either house, however, is free to pass over the term of insisting, and to adhere in the first instance; 10 Grey, 146; but it is not respectful to the other. In the ordinary parliamentary course, there are two free conferences, at least, be- fore an adherence. 10 Grey, 147.
Either house may recede from its amendment and agree to the bill; or recede from their disagreement to the amendment, and agree to the same absolutely, or with an amend- ment; for here the disagreement and receding destroy one another, and the subject stands as before the disagreement. Elsynye, 23, 27; 9 Grey, 476.
But the House cannot recede from, or insist on its own amendment, with an amendment; for the same reason that it cannot send to the other house an amendment to its own act after it has passed the act. They may modify an amendment from the other house by ingrafting an amendment on it, because they have never assented to it; but they cannot amend their own amendment, because they have on the question, passed it in that form. 9 Grey, 363; 10 Grey, 240. In the Senate, March 29, 1798. Nor where one house has adhered to their amendment, and the other agrees with an amendment, can the first house depart from the form which they have fixed by an adherence.
In the case of a money bill, the lords' proposed amendments become, by delay, confess- edly necessary. The commons, however, refused them, as infringing on their privileges as to money bills; but they offered themselves to add to the bill a proviso to the same effect, which had no coherence with the lords' amendments; and urged that it was an expedient warranted by precedent, and not unparliamentary in a case become impracticable, and irremediable in any other way. 3 Hats., 256, 266, 270, 271. But the lords refused, and the bill was lost. 1 Chand., 288. A like case, 1 Chand., 311. So the commons resolved that it was unparliamentary to strike out, at a conference, anything in a bill which had been agreed and passed by both Houses. 6 Grey, 274; 1 Chand., 312.
A motion to amend an amendment from the other House takes precedence of a motion to agree or disagree.
A bill originating in one House is passed by the other with an amendment.
The originating House agrees to their amendment with an amendment. The other may agree to their amendment with an amendment, that being only in the 2d and not the 3d degree; for, as to the amending House, the first amendment with which they passed the bill is a part of its text; it is the only text they have agreed to. The amendment to that text by the originating House, therefore, is only in the first degree, and the amendment to that again by the amending House is only in the 2d, to wit: an amendment to an amend ment, and so admissible. Just so, when, on a bill from the originating House, the other, at its second reading makes an amendment; on the third reading this amendment is become the text of the bill, and if an amendment to it be moved, an amendment to that amend- ment may also be moved, as being only in the 2d degree.
SECTION XLVI.
CONFERENCES.
It is on the question of amendments between the Houses that conferences are usually asked; but they may be asked in all cases of difference of opinion between the two Houses on matters depending between them. The request of a conference, however, must always be with the House which is possessed of the papers. 3 Hats., 31; 1 Grey, 425.
Conferences may be either simple or free. At a conference simply, written reasons are prepared by the House asking it, and they are read and delivered, without debate, to the managers of the other House at the conference; but are not then to be answered; 4 Grey, 141. The other House, then, if satisfied, vote the reason satisfactory, or say nothing; if not satisfied, they resolve them not satisfactory, and ask a conference on the subject of the last conference, where they read and deliver, in like manner, written answers to those reasons. 3 Grey, 183. They are meant chiefly to record the jurisdiction of each House to the nation at large. and to posterity, and in proof that the miscarriage of a necessary measure is not
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MANUAL OF PARLIAMENTARY PRACTICE.
imputable to them. 3 Grey, 255. At free conferences the managers discuss, viva voce and freely, and interchange propositions for such modifications as may be made in a parliament- ary way, and may bring the sense of the two Houses together. And each party reports in writing to their respective Houses the substance of what is said on both sides, and it is en- tered in their journals. 9 Grey, 220; 3 Hats., 280. This report can not be amended or altered, as that of a committee may be. Journal of Senate, May 24, 1796.
A conference may be asked, before the House asking it has come to a resolution of disa- greement, insisting or adhering. 3 Hats., 269, 341. In which case the papers are not left with the other conferees, but are brought back to be the foundation of the vote to be given. And this is the most reasonable and respectful proceeding; for, as was urged by the lords on a particular occasion, "it is held vain, and below the wisdom of Parliament, to reason or argue against fixed resolutions, and upon terms of impossibility to persuade." 3 Hats., 226. So the commons say, "an adherence is never delivered at a free conference, which implies debate." 10 Grey, 137. And on another occasion the lords made it an objection that the commons had asked a free conference after they had made resolutions of adhering. It was then affirmed, however, on the part of the commons, that nothing was more parliamentary than to proceed with free conferences after adhering (3 Hats., 269), and we do in fact see inferences of conferences, or of free conference, asked after the resolution of disagreeing, (3 Hats., 251, 253, 260, 286, 291, 316, 319); of insisting (Ib., 280, 296, 299, 319, 322, 355); of adher- ing (269, 270, 283, 300); and even of a second or final adherence. 3 Hats., 270. And in all cases of conference asked after a vote of disagreement, etc., the conferees of the House asking it are to leave the papers with the conferees of the other; and in one case where they refused to receive them, they were left on the table in the conference chamber. Ib., 317, 323, 354; 10 Grey, 146.
After a free conference, the usage is to proceed with free conferences, and not return again to a conference. 3 Hats., 270; 9 Grey, 229.
After a conference denied, a free conference may be asked. 1 Grey, 45.
When a conference is asked, the subject of it must be expressed, or the conference not agreed to. Ord. H. Com., 89; 1 Grey, 425; 8 Grey, 31. They are sometimes asked to inquire concerning an offense or default of a member of the other House. 6 Grey, 181; 1 Chand., 304. Or the failure of the other House to present to the King a bill passed by both Houses. 8 Grey, 302. Or on information received, and relating to the safety of the nation. 10 Grey, 171. Or when the methods of Parliment are thought by the one House to have been de- parted from by the other, a conference is asked to come to a right understanding thereon. 10 Grey, 148. So when an unparliamentary message has been sent, instead of answering it, they ask a conference. 3 Grey, 155. Formerly an address or article of impeachment, or a bill with amendments, or a vote of the House, or concurrence in a vote, or a message from the King, were sometimes communicated by way of conference. 6 Grey, 128, 300, 387; 7 Grey, 80; 8 Grey, 210, 255; 1 Torbuck's Deb., 278; 10 Grey, 293; 1 Chandler, 49, 287. But this is not the modern practice. 8 Grey, 255.
A conference has been asked after the first reading of the bill, 1 Grey, 194. This is a singular instance.
SECTION XLVII.
MESSAGES.
Messages between the Houses are to be sent only while both Houses are sitting. 2 Hats., 15. They are received during debate without adjourning the debate. 3 Hats., 22.
[In Senate the messengers are introduced in any state of business, except: 1. While a question is putting. 2. While the yeas and nays are calling. 3. While the ballots are counting. Rule 47. The first case is short; the second and third are cases where any interruption might occasion errors difficult to be corrected. So arranged June 15, 1788.]
In the House of Representatives, as in Parliament, if the House be in committee when a messenger attends, the Speaker takes the chair to receive the message, and then quits it to return into committee, without any question or interruption. 4 Grey, 226.
Messengers are not saluted by the members, but by the Speaker of the House. 2 Grey. 253, 274.
If messengers commit an error in delivering their message, they may be admitted or called in to correct their message. 4 Grey, 41. Accordingly, March 13, 1800, the Senate having made two amendments to a bill from the House of Representatives. their Secretary, by mistake, delivered one only, which being inadmissible by itself, that House disagreed, and notified the Senate of their disagreement. This produced a discovery of the mistake. The Secretary was sent to the other House to correct his mistake, the correction was received, and the two amendments acted on de novo.
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