USA > Pennsylvania > Colonial records of Pennsylvania, Vol. II > Part 30
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Griffith Owen,
Esq'rs. James Logan,
Jos. Pidgeon,
The Govr. having last night Ordered the Secry, to Call this morn- ing upon the House, for their answer to the last message, he re- ported that he had been with the Assembly, but the Speaker was not come to the House, that he had informed some of the members of this message, who promised to acquaint the Speaker & press the dispatch of the answer as much as possible.
A Petition from Rowld. Ellis, & divers others Inhabitants Meirion & the upper parts of the Welch Tract to the number of 98, was Read, humbly requesting that for the better accommodating the said Petitrs. and other Inhabitants of that Countrey over Shuylkill, this Board would grant ym the Priviledge to sett up another fferry over the said River, between the lands of Edwd. Roberts on the further side, & Thos. Shute on the hither side, to be kept by the said Robt., and that a Road should be laid out from Meirion meeting house to the said fferry, & from thence falling into the Road leading to Philadelphia.
Ordered, that some of the Petitrs. be required to attend this Board, to Speak to the matter contained in the said Petition, & that John Powel, who now keeps the upper fferry on the said River, have also notice to be present.
No answer being brought from the Assembly, Griffith Owen was ordered by the Govr. to call again upon the House for the same, & to inform ym that the Govr. & Council had waited great part of this morning for it.
Griffith Owen returning, reported that he had been with the House, that their answer was that the Clerk was transcribing what they had drawn up, & that in 2 Hours it would be ready.
And then adjourned till 2d day (Monday) next.
At a Councill held at Philadelphia, ye 2d of 10br., 1706. PRESENT :
The Honble JOHN EVANS, Esqr., Lieut. Governr.
Edward Shippen,
James Logan,
Judge Guest, Esq'rs.
Richd. Hill, Esq'rs. Thos. Story,
In pursuance of an Order of the last session of the Board, upon the Petition of divers Inhabitants beyond Schuylkill, for another fferry over that River, Several of the said Petitioners attended to speak to the same. John Powel also attended, and presented an- other Petition subscribed with about 47 names, humbly Shewing, That for Accommodating the Inhabitants beyond Schuylkill, in
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their passage over the same, in a better manner than formerly had been done by the first settled ferry, there Encouragemt., was given to Wm. Powel to erect one upon his Land, which to his Great Cost and Trouble, he had effected, and always maintained a Commodious fferry at the sd place, without any other Charge to the Publick than what the Law allows, But that now some other persons endea- vour to settle another not very far distant from what the said Willm. had erected, which would utterly ruine it by drawing away the Greatest part of their Custom, which would be highly ungrateful, after they had so long maintained it when the profit would not answer the Charge.
And divers of the Petitrs on both sides being heard, and their allegations Considered, It was Ordered, That David Powel, the Surveyor of the County, should with Rowld. Ellis, David Jones, Edwd. Roberts and Benjamin Humphris, four of the first Petitrs., and Saml. Bradshaw, Jno. Warner, Jno. Miffin and Thos. Shute, four of the latter Petitrs., view exactly the Conveniencies and Incon- veniencies, as well of the Road and ferry that now is, as of the place where the Petitrs. desire ye new road & ferry, & make report thereof to this Board.
The Govr. laid before the Board an address he reced. on 7th day last, (Saturday,) after the Council rose from the Assembly, in these words.
The Address of the Representatives of the freemen of the province of Pennsylvania, presented to the Governour the 30th day of No- vember, 1706, In answer to his message of the 28th Instant, sent to the Assembly.
May it please the Governr :
We have taken thy last message into our serious Consideration, & as far as the shortness of the time would permit, have had due regard to ye severall Clauses and Paragraphs thereof, And for answer there- to, the House thought fitt humbly to Offer the following Resolves, Which we Entreat that the Governour will be pleased Deliberately to weigh and Consider.
November 29th, 1706.
Resolved, That it is the opinion of this house, Nemine Contradi- cente :
1. That it is the undoubted right of the Representatives of the freemen of this Province, in Assembly mett, To address and advise the Govr. to turn out or misplace for misdemeanour, any magistrate or officer Constituted by the Govr.
2. It is the Opinion of This House, N. C. D., That if any such Magistrate or officer shall be Impeached by the Assembly for official Misdemeanour, such magistrate or Officer, upon proof made of such Charge, ought to be Removed or Displaced at the Instance of the Assembly.
3. It is the Opinion of this House, N. C. D., That fines and Forfeitures were not granted to the Govr. or his Deputy for their own private Use, And that the Fines and forfeitures proposed
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this Assembly, towards paying the Justices fees, are rightly appro- priated.
4. It is the opinion of this House, N. C. D., That tho' the Govr. know of no Concealmt. of the reasons for repealing the late Bill of Courts. Yet the Secry. James Logan, may as well conceal them as he did the objections of the Lords Commissionrs. of Trade & Plantations, which he receiv'd the Tenth of December, 1705, and did not pro- duce the same to the Assembly then sitting, which he ought to have done before they had passed the bill, that gave a great sum of money to the Proprietor & Governour for support of the Governmt., (which he then was about surrendering,) And before they had passed the rest of the Laws then Enacted, many if not most of them being lyable to the same objections which were the Cause of repealing the former.
5. It is the opinion of this House, N. C. D., That the scheme pro- posed by the Assembly for Establishing Courts of Judicature, is well adapted to the circumstances of this province, and is for the most part Warranted by the Common and statute Laws of England, And this House conceives That nothing of weight hath as yet been ad- vanced against it, but what has been already complyed with by the as- sembly. And as Concerning the scheme proposed by the Govr., the Valuable parts thereof are Comprized or supplied by the said other scheme. But as to the residue thereof, though it may in some respects agree with Establishmts. in neighbouring Colonies, yet inasmuch as it may produce the like Inconveniencies as theirs do, this House re- jected it.
6. It is the opinion of this House N. C. D., That whosoever Did advise the Govr. that any part of the acts of parliament wch Estab- lished Courts in Wales is abrogated, unless it be that wch made the President & Council there to be a Court of Equity, with a few more clauses concerning Sheriffs, Jurors & the the number of Justices, have given pernicious Council to the Govr.
7. It is the opinion of this House N. C. D., That if a Law could pass here to settle the Court of Equity in the Govr. & Council, It might meet with the like rebuke at home, as that part of the Ordi- nance of Wales Did, wch gave the president and Council there the Power of a Chancery, which being a Burthen to the subject and a means to Introduce Arbitrary Power, was Suppressed by a Statue made in the 1st year of King William and Queen Mary, Chapter ye 27, But the Settlement of Chancery in the Respective Counties of Wales being the foundation of the Assemblies Bill, is Established, and has had Constant allowance since the time of King Henry ye 8th.
8. It is the opinion of this House, N. C. D. That though the Govr. may advise with what Council he pleases, Yet it is not war- rantable from that to Inferr that such Council should therefore have the like authority as Councills in Govmts. immediately under the Crown, where the Queen Gives them their share in Legislation, as well as the Governrs., by Express powers, as this House is In- formed.
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9. It is the opinion of this House, N. C. D. That such of the Govrs. Council as joyned with him in ye said message, & made ob- jections to ye Bill for Establishing Courts, prepared by this House, have assumed to themselves a share of the Legislative authority of this Province.
10. It is the opinion this House, N. C. D. That ye reviving of Courts with the Pleas and Process depending since the repeal, so highly effects the Queens subjects in their Lives & Estates, That it cannot be done by any Ordinance of Governour and Council.
11. It is the opinion of this House, N. C. D. That if the Govr. will think fitt to shew the Assembly wherein the said Bill for Regu- lation of Courts (now lying before him) is yet defective or disagree- ble to Law or Reason, in any part thereof, the Assembly will spend more time to consider thereof, & endavour to Comply with the Governr. in all things Consisting with their duty to ye Queen, and Trust in them Reposed by ye people they Represent.
12. It is the opinion of this House, N. C. D. That all persons who do or shall advise the Govr. to Re-establish Courts & Revive the pleas & Process aforesaid, by an Ordinance, without ye consent of the Assembly such advice or Council . is pernicious to the Govr. And such advisers are to be Deemed as Enemies to the Justice, Tranquility and welfare of this Province.
13. It is the Opinion of this House, That the said James Logan is one of those who advises the Govr. to insist upon an Opinion of Re-establishing Courts of Judicature in this Province, by an ordi- nance of the Govr. and Council, without the Concurrence of the Assembly, & hath therein Given pernicious Council to ye Govr. ffor which as also for his said Concealmt. of ye Objections of the Lords of Trade, He is Deemed an Enemy to ye Govr. & Govmt. of this Province.
14. Resolved, That an humble address be made to the Governr. to Remove the said, James Logan from his Council and Pres- sence.
Signed by order of the House, Per DAV'D LLOYD, Speaker,
The Govr. also acquainted the Board that the Assembly at New- castle, being extreamly impatient at his absence, all the last week from them, he could now stay no longer, but must this very night, if possible, be with them, and thereupon desired the advice of the Coun- cil upon the said address.
Which being Considered, it was Resolved, That notwithstanding divers of ye said heads required to be taken notice of, and answered, and although the Courts ought without delay, to be Established, the Countrey now suffering very deeply for want of them, Yet as this Board always had shewn a Desire to have them settled, with the Concurrence of the Assembly if possible to be effected, and they in their Eleventh Paragraph express a willingness to spend more time to consider what may be objected against their Bill, so it is most advisable (for prevention of a Total Rupture with the House, by which the Govmt. might more deeply suffer,) to adjourn the Courts
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once more, & to endeavour to accommodate the matter with them, if to be done upon any terms that are reasonable.
And 'tis Ordered thereupon that the Court of Philadelphia be ad- journed by the Justices thereof to the Second Tuesday (so calledfin January) next, & that the Court of Bucks be also adjourned to the next week then after following.
Ordered that Edwd. Shippen & Thos. Story goe on a message in the afternoon to the Assembly, and acquaint them with the Govrs. Departure for Newcastle, and the above resolve, and that thereupon there is a necessity for the House to adjourn for a fortnight at least, & accordingly the Govr. wills that they be adjourned.
At a Council held at Philadelphia ye 18th of 10bre., 1706.
PRESENT :
The Honble JOHN EVANS, Esqr., Lieut. Govr.
Thos. Story, ?
William Trent,
James Logan,
Caleb Pusey, Esq'rs. George Roche, ? Esq'rs.
Thos. Story reported to the Board, that in pursuance of the Order to Edward Shippen & himself, they had delvd. the Govrs. message to the House as by the said order directed, that the House seem'd well satisfied with the first part thereof, but to the order for their ad- journmt. they answered they would consider of it.
The last address of the House, with their Resolves therein con- tained being further considered, the Board came to a Resolve, which Thos. Story and William Trent were Ordered to carry in the follow- ing words.
That tho' the last resolves of the House contain many abuses, Perversions & Reflections upon and against the Govmt., that must of necessity be animadverted on, Yet the Govr., for the service of the Countrey wch now deeply suffers by the full stop that is putt to the Currt. of Justice, is willing at this Juncture to wave that animadver- sion, to bring on the business in hand, viz : the Bill for Establishing Courts, & therefore proposes to the House to proceed on the said Bill as far as it directly relates to Establishing Courts & no other- wise leaving out all those demands of such Powers & Rights as the Propr. & Govr. are now duly possest of, for these will by no means be granted away, & all such other matters as are not necessary to such a Bill, all which will appear by the Objections already made by the Govr. and sent to the House, and then the Govr. will concur with the assembly in enacting it without further delay.
At the motion of the Master of ye Rolls, Ordered that the Queens orders in Council for repealing divers of the Laws of this Province & Terrs. be delvd. to him to be Recorded next after the record of ye . said Laws, & the said orders was delvd. to him by ye Secry. accord- ingly.
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At a Council held at Philadia., 21st of 10br., 1706. at R. Hills.
PRESENT :
The Honble JOHN EVANS, Esqr., Lieut. Govr.
Thos. Story,
James Logan,
Griffith Owen, Esq'rs. Richard Hill,
Esq'rs.
William Trent, Joseph Pidgeon,
An answer from the Assembly to the Govrs. message sent to the House on the 18th day of December, was read in these words.
The Assemblies Answer to ye Govrnrs. message sent to the House of Representatives on the Eighteenth day of December, 1706.
The Govr. at his last going to New Castle, was pleased to send us a message to this effect, that for as much as in one of our last Re- #solves sent him, we concluded upon spending more time to consider of what he should further propose by way of amendment to the Bill of Courts. Therefore the Govr. was willing the House should ad- journ for a fortnight, and so the House adjourned till the seventeenth Inst. At which time the Assembly expected some further proposals of amendmts. to ye said Bill; but instead thereof to their great dis- appointment, The Govr. was pleased last night to send a message Containing some general Charges and aspersions, which they take to be not only unjust in themselves, but considered as given to the Representatives of the freemen of this Province in Assembly, who by immediate powers from ye Crown of England Contained in ye Royal Charter, are invested with so great a share of the Legislative autho- rity of this Province seems very harsh, and we think without presi- dent, and Possibly may administer more Just occasion to be animad- verted on than any of those votes upon wch it reflects.
The Govr., towards the Close of the said message is pleased to refer to his former Objections, Which tho' the House Conceived were sufficiently answered, and therefore expected the Govr. had either been near an agreement with the House, or would otherwise have given his further objections, grounded on Law or Reason, as was pro- posed. Yet considering the great necessity of settling the said - Courts, which the House is very Desirous should be speedily Esta- blished for the benefit of the Queens Subjects in this Province, The Assembly have again deliberately Considered the Govrs. former ob- jections to the said Bill, and have Endeavoured to Comply with his mind so far as they Judge it Consistent with their Duty to the Queen, & the Trust reposed in them by those they represent.
But for as much as the Gvr., in his said objections, is pleased to suppose the House Expects greater privileges than other of the Queens Colonies in America, Or would draw something from the Proprietary, which is not their right to expect. The House humbly proposes, That he would be pleased to Consider That this Province was not at first settled as some others were, either at the Charge of the Crown of England or of any private man, nor was it peopled with the purges of English prisons, but by men of Sobriety and sub- stance, who were Induced Chiefly by the Constitution, Which by Compact with the Proprietary, was to be so Established as that the
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purchasers and adventurers were to have greater Privileges than they Enjoyed in their native Countreys, Which however, we have been deprived of, we think ye Proprietary in duty and Conscience obliged to endeavour to restore unto us instead of surrendering. But if the Govr. will be pleased to show the House, wherein the Bill of Courts now proposed, Contains any Request of things to be granted away from the Proprietary, which was not either Expressly or im- plicitely granted the People formerly by him, & which is not Con- sistent with the practice of England or some of the Queens planta- tions in America . The Assembly will then readily Comply wth the Govr. in making such alterations therein as shall be agreeable thereto. In the mean time, we hope ye Govr. will better consider than to send an answer like the former, that he will not agree because what is Expected is granting something from the proprietary, wch is now his right, seeing all the Assembly asked is in him to grant or refuse. But ye question will be, whether he ought not in Justice to grant it, seeing it is in his power, And the like Answer from this House would hardly be deemed Cordial by the Govr. in case of the want of a supply, however as to that part of the objections relating to the perquisites arising by Lycences, the assembly to shew their Design was a Regular Establishmt., rather than aiming at any of the Govrs. perquisites, have agreed by certain Resolves herewith presented thee to make an alteration in that part of the Bill, with an augumenta- tion to the Governour, But the fines and forfeitures, the House can- not agree to alter from the uses to which they are already appropria- ted by the Bill.
Signed by Order of the House.
Per DAV'D. LLOYD, Speaker.
Resolves Delivered with their 3d answers, ye 21st, 10br., 1706.
Resolved, Nemine Contra Dicente, That it is ye Opinion of this House, that the Govrs. sixth objection about putting in & turning out of officers is sufficiently answered, and the Assembly see no cause to Recede from their former Resolves upon that head.
Resolved N. C. D. that it is the opinion of this House that the power of Lycensing of common alehouses, &c. ought to be in the justices of Peace here as amply as it is in Justices of peace in Engld.
Resolved that it is the Opinion of this House that if the Govr. will agree with the Assembly to allow the Justices Power of Lycens- ing Taverns as by the Bill is proposed, there shall be paid him for every Lycense to be granted by the Justices of ye City of Philadia. if to sell wine, three pounds; if to sell ale and all other strong Liquors, Except wine, Twenty shillings, & if to sell Wine, ale and other strong Liquors four pounds, & for every Lycense Granted in any other part of ye Province, ye moiety of the Respective Rates aforesaid. And that a Clause be put in the Bill for that purpose.
Resolved N. C. D. that in Case the Govr. be pleased to accept of the said perquisites in Lieu of what is allowed him for Licenses by the act of the last Assembly, it is the opinion of this House that the Clause in the said act wch allows the Govr. forty shillings for every License in Philadia., and twenty shillings in the Country, &
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to the Secry. for drawing the Lycense and Bond, ten shillings, shall be repealed.
Resolved N. C. D. that as to the fines and forfeitures this House Refers to the Assembl's answer to the Govrs. tenth objection.
Ex Per DAV'D. LLOYD, Speaker.
Which being read and Considered, it was Resolved that a Reply be drawn up first, hinting particularly but briefly ye abuses, Perver- sions & Reflections on the Govrs. Message; 2dly. acquainting the House again that in as much as the Priviledges disputed were al- ready fully settled by the Proprs. Charter and the Laws in force, the present Govr. could not take upon him to make any Innovation or grant what the Propr. himself when here thought not fitt to grant. Thirdly, That the Bill of Courts be perused, & such parts as have been objected against & cannot be granted, be marked out distinctly, & the other parts assented to.
Ordered that the Master of the Rolls & the Secry. draw up the said answer to be laid before the Board at the next sitting of the Council.
An Order of the House was read, requiring 4 of their members to acquaint the Govr. that two others of their members being sent from the House in a message to the Govr.t were affronted by the Secry. J. Logan, in a Contemptible manner, &c .- for which the House expects satisfaction, but first acquaints the Govr. before he be sent for, to avoid any misunderstanding between the Govr. & the House, the abuse being Resented as a Breach of Priviledge, &c.
Order of Assembly & Message, ye 18th of 10br., 1706.
Ordered that Griffith Jones, ffrancis Cook, Saml. Lewis & John Swift do wait upon the Governour & acquaint him that they were ordered by the House again to lett him understand that the House waited to know his pleasure & to Receive what he hath to commu- cate concerning the Bill of Courts & other Bills laid before him by the last Assembly.
The said members are also to acquaint the Governr. that the two members sent to him in a message from the House last night, were affronted by the Secry. James Logan, who in a Contemptible man- ner, after he knew they Came in a message to the Govr., askt one of the said members whether he was not ashamed to look him, the said James Logan in the face, with other very unbecoming words, for which the House Expects satisfaction ; but before he be sent for, they thought fitt to acquaint the Governour thereof, as well in Ex- pectation that the Govr. will use means to prevent the like Indigni- ties for the future, as to avoid any misunderstanding betwixt the Govr. and this House, The abuse being Resented as a Breach of Priviledge of this Assembly, In a matter which seems to Touch the Governours honour who was pleased to Promise the Repre- sentatives free access to his persons, & all other Priviledges of an assembly.
Per Order of ye House, Decembr. 18th, 1706. DAV'D. LLOYD, Speaker.
And the Secry. being called on to give an acct. of the Occasion
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of the sd Complaint, Informed the Board yt all that past was a Joc- ular expression or two to S. Richardson, who used always to take a great freedom that way himself & that he believed he never resented it as any affront, for he is sure it was never designed as one, &c., whereupon 'was ordered that the said member of Assembly himself, should be desired to inform the Govr. of the whole matter, and being sent for, He declared he was not at all affronted.
At a Council held at Philadelphia, 10br., ye 23, 1706.
PRESENT :
The Honble JOHN EVANS, Esqr., Lieut. Govr. Thos. Story, Richard Hill,
James Logan, Esq'rs.
Joseph Pidgeon.
Esq'rs.
William Trent,
According to the Order of the Board of the 21st Instant, the Master of ye Rolls and the Secry. presented an answer, drawn up according to the last minutes, to be sent in a message to the Assem - bly, which being read & distinctly Considered, was agreed on in the following words, viz :
The Govr., in his last written message to the House, informed them, that notwithstanding in their former resolves there were many abuses, &c. upon and against the Govmt., which required an ani- madversion yet for the service of the Publick, he was willing to wave them to bring on the business in hand, viz : the Bill of Courts, that the Current of Justice might be opened, & as he was willing to wave all resentmts. for so good an end, he hoped the House would have immediately proceeded according to the Method proposed, which he thought was very plain and Clear. But in answer to this, as if they were wholly insensible of any occasion given, they have more irreverently retorted upon him, & still hold remote from what has been proposed. The Govr. will always continue to Insist upon what appears to be the directest method to finish the Bill, Yet that the House may be more fully convinced of the Occasions given him for those mentioned Remarks, He thinks fitt to point out such passages in their Resolves as will Justly fall under some of those Titles that he gave them.
The Govr. assured the House he knew of no Concealmt., and yo voters of ye House make it appear, that by a message of three mem- bers to the Secry. he had before done the same, notwithstanding which he is Charged, and a Parrallel brought to support it, which the Govr. knows to be groundless. The last clause also is a great mis- take, for there are but two fines in all those Laws last past, granted to the Propr., but what are for the support of Govmt., besides which no other of these objections will lie.
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