USA > Pennsylvania > Colonial records of Pennsylvania, Vol. II > Part 54
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What part of that bill were drawn into the Ordinance, the Assem- bly in general, we are strangers to; but are unanimously of opinion with the former Assembly yt whilst the Representatives of the people are ready to establish Courts by a Law, that the setting them up by ordinance of the Govr. & Council, & exacting fees as now Practised, is not warranted by the Royal Charter, notwithstanding the Opinion of some to ye contrary, but is so great an aggrievance that we must take leave to assure thee of our Resolution to lay it before the Queen, unless thou prevent it by a speedy redress, before any other matters be proceeded in.
Thou art pleased to tell us that it appears the Courts may be effec- tually settled & justice duly administered without any of these addi- tions contained in the bill. We shall not now spend time to trouble thee with the complaints we find exhibited to the former Assembly,
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of the irregularities as well as injustice committed by some of the magistrates of those Courts, but are intirely of opinion wth those as- semblys that the methods proposed by the bill, will be as Rules and Directions to the Justices, & enable them to controul (Instead of being imposed on by the barr, which otherwise, through their want of skill in the Law and Rules and Practice of the Courts in England, they may be Lyable to.
What thou proposes of a more general jurisdicon for the Provin- cial Courts, we are of Opinion is better provided for by the bill we recommend, than perhaps has been well observed ; and for the other two particulars, We are Ready to make the reasonableness & consist- ency of them plainly appear.
We are willing, according to the late example of New York, that after the Courts are Established by Law, the fees be settled in a distinct bill, & shall appoint a Committee to prepare it accordingly ; But are not apprehensive of any such consequences as thou seems to fear, if the bills be passed together, because we conceive it in general to be well warranted by the Laws & practice of England, as has evi- dently made appear to the late Ltt. Govr., by that Assembly, who prepared it.
Upon the whole, if thou art in good earnest, as we really are, for the Dispatch of business, we desire that the ordinance (that Stumbling block) may be cast no more in our way ; the continuance whereof so long is ill resented by the Country, but that thou wilt please to send us speedily the objections to the bill, as thou gave us an expectation at our last adjournment.
Signed by Order of ye House of Representatives, ye 18 August, 1709.
DAVID LLOYD, Speaker.
Which answer being considered & Debated, it was Resolved, that a message should be sent to them in writing, to observe to them the unsuitableness of the Language they have thought fitt to use to the Govr., wch is agreed on in these words.
The Govr. cannot but think it strange that after the regard he has upon all occasions shewn to this Assembly, they should think fitt either to threaten him or suspect the Sincerity of his Intentions ; to the first he says he will always discharge his Trust according to the best of his knowledge & ability, and therefore shall not be concerned what applications in relation to his Administration are made to her Majesty by the House or any others. To the next he shall never desire the house to be more in earnest or to shew more Candour than they shall always find in him ; but must exhort ym., as they have a regard for the dispatch of business, & the good of the public depend- ing on that dispatch, to avoid such Language for the future, until occasion be given.
And Edwd. Shippen, Judge Growdon, Richard Hill, Isaac Norris, & the Secry. are ordered to go on the said message, & after delivering the foregoing in writing, to Confer with the House concerning the Bill of Courts & the last messages & answers in relation to it; but particularly in reply to the last from the House, they are to inform
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the Assembly; That the Ordinance has not been proposed to the House as a stumbling block, as they call it, but with this design only, viz. : all the essential parts of the bill for the establishmt. of Courts being brought into the Ordinance, & therefore that consisting only of such parts of this bill, it might be taken as a proper basis to begin upon, to which such other additions might be made out of the same bill as should appear necessary for practice.
That to Draw out all the objections to the Bill in writing, & enter into Debates upon them would be such an insupportable trouble and Loss of time that it can by no means be agreed to ; but if the House, as by their last message they seem to imply, are willing to waive all those matters, wch they seemed to do by their answer of the 22d of february, 1706, the whole may then be reduced to a narrow compass, And if so, it is not to be expected the Govr. should now give his objections to the bill as it lies before, seeing of all those many amend- ments then conceded to, there has not yet been one made in the bill, but it lies before the Board almost in the same words it was at first presented. Therefore, if the House is willing that all the rest should be waved excepting those two particulars only then mentioned, the members now sent are ordered to speak to those heads, & acquaint the House.
That as to the power of granting Licenses to Publick Houses, the Govr. cannot think fitt to part with it, but desires the matter may be brought into a separate bill, & in that he is willing to agree that no Lycense shall be valid without a recommendation from the ma- gistrates.
That the method of appointing Clerks, (wch is the 2d head,) is already settled by the Charter, to which the Govr. is willing to add that upon application made to the Govr. by the Court, they shall be removed.
That the other particulars last mentioned in the Govrs. former message may be deferred till other matters are adjusted ; that they contain nothing but what the Publick is wholly concerned in, & therefore need not give much trouble, or occasion Loss of time to those who have nothing else in their view, & then adjourned.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 23d of Augst., 1709.
PRESENT :
The Honble CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Lt. Govr.
Edwd. Shippen, )
Richd. Hill,
Judge Growdon,
Isaac Norris,
Griffith Owen, Esq'rs. Saml. Preston,
Esq'rs.
Caleb Pusey,
Antny. Palmer.
James Logan,
Pursuant to an Order of the 16th Instant, the Swedish minister, A. Sandal, appeared by an address to this Board in writing, gave his answer to the Petition & Complaint exhibited against him by B. Chambers, which being read, it appeared that the said minister,
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claimed a right to erect a fferry there on this side of Schuylkill, because the road & Causeway leading to the ferry is laid out thro' his land; & further Charged B. Chambers with a violation of his contract, with making spoil of the timber on the Land which he had taken of the owners thereof on this side of the River, with Divers other allegations in his own defence.
But the Govr. and Council taking into Consideration, that Roads when once laid out for the Publick Service according to Law, are no longer the property of any particular person, but belong wholly to the Publick, & the Road leading from Philadia. to the said ferry, being generally called the Queen's Road, is therefore wholly under the Cognizance of this Board ; and further, considering that all fer- ries upon suck Publick Roads are a Privilege of the Proprietor, only by Virtue of the Royal Grant to him & his heirs. It is therefore unanimously ye opinion of the Govr. and Council, that neither the said minister, Andrew Sandal, nor any other person claiming a Right or Interest in the Land through which the said Road is laid out, has any better right to ye Road or ye adjoyning ferry than any other of the Queen's Subjects has or can claim to the same, and that no person under any pretence whatsoever ; shall be allowed to erect a Publick ferry over the River Skuylkill, or any other water in such Roads as aforesaid, but by special Grant of the Proprietor & this Board. Adjourned.
At a Council held at Philadelpia., the 25th of Augst., 1709.
PRESENT :
The Honble CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr.
Edward Shippen,
Caleb Pusey,
Richard Hill, J Esq'rs. Saml. Preston,
Isaac Norris,
Esq'rs.
James Logan,
Antny. Palmer.
The Bill of Courts being yesterday returned to the Govr. by the House, amended as far as they thought agreed with their engage- ments ; those amendments were viewed & Considered, but found not at all to come up to the Expectations the House had given the Govr., and the members sent to their House who held the last conference.
'Tis ordered, therefore, that Edward Shippen & Caleb Pusey go on a message from the Govr. and this Board to the House, & acquaint them.
That as well from their late messages as the Conferences had wth them, it was understood they had intirely dropt all those matters that had been objected to in the bill of Courts, in febry., 1706, saving only two heads, wch have since been very nearly agreed on, but that now, to the Govrs. great Surprize, after it had remained with them for several days, in Ordr., as the Board expected to be al- tered according to those objections, they have returned it with but very little variation in those points from what it was before. That 'ts needless to mention what alterations are expected, being all con-
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tained in a message to the House, dated the 15th of febry., 1706, all which but the two before mentioned they were obliged to Concede to; And hereupon, the said members are Ord'd to press the House without any further Loss of time, to put out of the bill all that was then objected to, & Consider also what further alterations may be necessary to be made for the good of the Public.
That the Board has not yet had time to peruse the bill of fees, but in general find them so exceeding Low, that it will be an oppres- sion to the officers to agree to any such.
And then adjourned.
At a Council held at Philadia., ye 31st of Augst., 1709. PRESENT :
The Honble CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr.
Edwd. Shippen,
James Logan,
Saml. Carpenter,
Richd. Hill,
Esq'rs.
Joseph Growdon,
Esq'rs.
Saml. Preston.
Caleb Pusey,
The Assembly having this day sent back the bill of Courts to the Govr., with several amendmts. by them agreed to, and two other bills, the Secry. reported to the board, that after the two members of Council, in pursuance of the Ordr. of the 25th Inst., had been with the House and Delivered their Message, they had sent to the Govr. desiring an acct. from him of what parts of the bill he thought fur- ther required their amendment; that thereupon, the Govr. had or- dered Caleb Pusey & himself to go on a message from him to the House, & from the message from this Board of the 15th febry., 1706, to point out to them those heads that were then objected to, and expected to be amended by them according to what had of late passed between this board, and them both by Written Messages and Verbal Conferences, but had not yet been complied with ; that ac- cordingly they had drawn out all those heads, and not only deliv'd their message on the 7th, (on Saturday) last, but had treated with the House the greatest part of all the forenoon of that day upon those heads ; That two days after the House had again sent to the Govr., to know expressly how many of those heads were still insisted on, and what amendments the Gvr. expected should be made to the bill before he would agree to it ; that by the Govrs. Order, he had drawn out in writing all those matters in the said Bill that were ob- jected to in febry., 1706 ; and further to shorten the business, had shewn them what alterations, in Express terms, would satisfy the board; That now the House, in answer to those objections, had re- turned the bill and agreed to most of all those amendments that had been proposed, and their written message of this day was read in these words, viz :
The Assembly's Message to the Govr., sent him the 30th day of the month called August, 1709.
May it please the Govr. :
The answer of the Assembly, to the amendments proposed by thee
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and sent to the House this morning, are noted in the margin of that Bill; And as for the other matters recommended to be con- sidered for the Genl. good, viz : Judgments at 6 weeks Courts. The House is of opinion, that it will be more for the dispatch of business and help Credrs. sooner to their debts, that it remain as proposed in the bill.
As to that of freeholders, the House conceive there is sufficient Provision made in the bill against the Danger supposed. The House agree that two Judges in Equity be appointed.
And that the Govr. appoint the times of the sitting and Continu- ance of all the Courts, and Cause the blanks in the bill to be filled accordingly.
DAVID LLOYD, Speaker.
The several amendments proposed to the House being partly in words only, but principally in the matters formerly objected to, viz : The Seal of the Supream Court to be the Provincial Seal, 2d Judges, 3d ffines, 4th Powers of the Corporation, 5th Lawyers, 6th upon arresting of freeholders, abatement of the writt to be sufficient, 7th Credrs. not to sue twice, 8thly Real Lease & Ouster not to be intro- duced, 9thly all writts to issue out of the office, 10thly the Orphans' Courts : besides which it was recommended further to the House to consider whether it would be safe that Judgment should be given at the 6 weeks Courts; That no Capias ad Satisfac. should be granted against a freeholder till Nulla Bona returned; That one Judge should Determine matters in Equity, and further proposed that the times of holding the Courts of Philadelphia should be altered.
And the several amendments noted in the margin of the bill, to which the House by their last message directed, being viewed it ap- peared that they had agreed to most of all these ten heads objected to, & amended them accordingly ; Only the 5th in part, and 6th in the whole, they could not consent to; had made no alterations in the 9th, nor in the 10th about Orphans' Courts, which was con- ceived to be only an omission, and hereupon
The sd. 6th Article was debated and agreed to, as the House pro- posed it; that of giving Judgmt. at the 6 weeks Courts, was de- bated and agreed to, as the House insisted on it. That of the Cap. ad Satisfac. against freeholders was debated, and agreed to, as the House insisted upon it ; But the amendment to the 9th article, that all writs shall issue out of the Clerk's Office, is unanimously insisted on by the whole Board ; and if the House will not agree to the amendment proposed to the 5th, 'tis Resolved that the whole Clause concerning attorneys or Lawyers, shall be left out ; The amendment to that of the Orphans' Courts being according to the former pro- posal of the House, is insisted on. Ord'd, that Caleb Pusey & Saml. Preston go in a message to the House in the morning, & acquaint them with these last Resolutions of the board, & also that they fur- ther inform them that the Govr. agrees to the adjournmt. proposed, but desires that a Committee be appointed to Joyn a Committee of this Board, to Consider & agree upon the bill of fees before their
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next meeting, and that their other bills not being yet fully con- sidered may be by that time.
The bill for naturalizing of Divers Germans, requiring Dispatch, was read and Ordered to be returned to the House by the same members that are to carry the foregoing message, who are to recom- mend it again to ye House to Consider whether it be safe to make the naturalization so extensive.
Ordered, that the bill of Courts be perused in the morning by R. Assheton, &c., and the Language & Expression of it be fully Con- sidered by them.
Ordered, that all the Officers in the Govmt. whose fees are men- tioned in the bill of fees, do forthwith bring into this board an acct. of fees now taken by ym. in the respective offices.
John Sotcher of the County of Bucks, presented to the board an address or Petition of the Magistrates of the said County, Grounded on divers Presentmts. of the Grand Juries of that County, complain- ing of the great want of a ferry over Delaware, from Bristol to Bur- lington, and requesting this board to authorize the said John Sotcher as the most proper person to keep the said ferry for the general ac- commodation of the Countrey there.
Ordered, that it be first Recommended to the House of Represen- tatives, and it is hereby recommended to them, to agree on an act to be passed, for establishing a ferry from Bristol to Burlington, in such a manner as may give sufficient Encouragement to a fitt person to give it due attendance at all seasons, after wch the sd. Jno Sotcher shall be appointed to keep the same as requested.
The Secry. Represented to the Board that having on the 20th of ye 5th month, 1708, presented to the Board an acct. of the Charges of the Onondagoes Indians last visit to us, amounting to £15: 1: 1. which was allowed, and Ordered to be pd. ; he now found by Jno. Moore, the Collrs. acct., from whom he had the principal of ye goods then presented to them, viz : Stroudwater & Stockins, that he had undercharged in one article 16 shs. & in another 9 shs. less than he himself was obliged (as he now found) to pay, and therefore prayed that the Treasurer might also be ord'd. to pay the said 25 shs., & place it to the same acct. with the rest; and accordingly the Trea- surer is Ord'd. to pay the Secry. the said 25 shs.
The Secry. also laid before the Board an acct. of the Charges of last Indian treaty & Journeys relating to it, amounting, besides the present furnished by the Assembly, to £24 : 7 : 10 : of old Currency, or £18: 6 new, of which the Assembly having Ordered El5, the Treasurer is Ordered to pay the same to the Secretary, and applica- tion is Ordered to be made to the Assembly for the Remainder, & then adjourned.
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At a Council held at Philadia., the 14 of Sepbr. 1709.
PRESENT :
The Honble. CHA. GOOKIN, Esq'r., Ltt. Govr.
Edwd. Shippen,
Richard Hill,
Griffith Owen,
Isaac Norris,
Caleb Pussey,
Esq'rs.
Samuel. Preston
Esq'rs.
James Logan,
Antny. Palmer.
William Trent, J
The Govr. having on the first instant. reced. a message from the Assembly, who that day adjourned, it was read in these words, viz : Sepbr. ye 1st, 1709.
A message from the Assembly to the Govr.
As to the clause about attorneys, It's agreed to be wholly omitted, and that the Laws about Courts, Proceedings & Summons, made in the Year 1700, & not repealed by the Queen, may be enforced, which will better suit the minds of the people.
The clause formerly razed in the Provision made for the arresting a freeholder not worth £100, is agreed to be kept in the bill, as desired, Judgmt. in the 6 weeks Courts, is still insisted on as in the bill, but we make at least two Justices requisite to sitt in those Courts.
We find the issuing of Process as formerly more agreeable to the Bill, as it is to the Law of this Province, passed in 1700, directing the forms of Writts not disallowed by the Queen.
That of the Orphans' Courts is already amended, according to the Assembly's answer of the 22d of febry., 1706. A Committee is appointed, according to the Govrs. request, who is ordered to attend him or such as he shall appoint, to confer upon the bill of fees, upon notice from the Govr .. which the House earnestly desires may be this afternoon.
After which the Board was informed, that it being impracticable that day for ye Comittees to meet, the Assembly, adjourned for 3 weeks, ordering first that the Bill of Courts, which they understood was fully agreed to by the Govr., should be Ingrossed against their next meeting.
But the days for holding the several Courts, which the House had left intirely to this board not being concluded on ; 'twas order'd that the days for holding all the Courts, should be the same that are ap- pointed by the Ordinance, only that the times for holding the Courts of Common Pleas in Philadia., being represented to be inconvenient as at present settled, it was left to the Justices of that Court & the officers to consider of more proper times.
It is also ordered, that Robt. Assheton Consider the Language of the said Bill carefully, and remark such parts of it as may be con- venient to be altered on that score, and that the clauses directing the issuing of Writts & Process be left to be further considered, but that the bill in all its other parts be engrossed forthwith to prevent Loss of time.
At the instance of Coll. Evans, an Indian boy called Mingo, said VOL. II .- 21
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to be imported into this Province, contrary to the Act of Assembly, intituled an act to prevent the Importation of Indian slaves, passed in the year 1705, Was presented to the Board to be disposed of according to the Directions of that act; But no Evidence being produced how he was imported, the matter was referred.
At a Council held at Philadia., ye 23d of Sepbr., 1709.
PRESENT :
The Honble CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr.
Edwd. Shippen, James Logan,
Judge Growdon, Esq'rs. Richd. Hill,
Caleb Pussey,
Saml. Preston.
Esq's.
The Govr. informed the Board, that Yesterday he had received a long Verbal Message from the Assembly, being now mett according to their last adjournments, in which they particularly desired that the Bill of Courts might be Expedited, their time being now very short. They severally taxed Robt. Asheton for presuming to make alterations in the bill without any sufficient authority, and moved that a committee might be appointed to confer about the bill of fees to which he promised them an answer, & now Desired the opinion of the Board what answer should be sent them.
The issuing of writts was again considered, and it is resolved, that it should be proposed to the house only to invest a Power in the Justices to grant them, but not that it should be required of them. It is Resolved, that a Committee be appointed to confer with another of the Assembly about the bill of fees. That the House be put in mind to amend the clause in the bill of Courts about Orphans, according to the objections made in relation to the Orphans Courts in febry., 1706 ; But that before any business be fully concluded with the House, they should be put in mind that 'tis Expected they should proceed in the bill for a supply & ye support of Govmt.
Ord'd, that Saml. Preston & the Secry. Carry the said message to the House, & then adjourned.
At a Council held at Philadia, the 26th of Sepbr., 1709, at Judge Growdon's.
PRESENT :
The Honble. CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr.
Edwd. Shippen,
James Logan,
Judge Growdon, Esq'rs. Saml. Preston. Esq'rs.
Capt. Saml. ffinney,
A Conference having been proposed by the Govr., to be held be- tween a Committee of this board & another of the Assembly, in order to settle the bill of fees, which was appointed on the 7th, or Saturday last, but then Could not be held this day ; the speaker of the House, with about Eight members more, mett the Council ; and the Govr., Recommending to them both to take the bill under their serious con-
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siderations, and to endeavour so to adjust the fees of all officers, that on the one hand the people who had business at the several officers might not be oppressed, and on the other that sufficient pay might be allowed to the officers such as might duly encourage & support them ; he withdrew, & left the committees to Confer together.
Several of the officers fees were debated, the attorney Genl. being sent for, appeared & shewed the great absurdity of the bill where it related to him ; the Master of the Rolls, Keeper of the Seals, & Secrys. fees were adjusted & settled, and then ye Council adjourned; and it was resolved, that the conference either should be Continued with the assembly, or that the council should of themselves draw over the fees as they thought them reasonable, & send them to the Assembly, but neither the one nor other was done.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 28th of Sepbr., 1709. PRESENT :
The Honble CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr.
Edward Shippen, - Richard Hill,
Judge Growdon,
Esq'rs. Isaac Norris, Saml. Preston.
James Logan,
S ~ Esq'rs.
The Govr. informed the Board that he had recd. some very press- ing messages from the Assembly to bring the matters in hand to a Conclusion ; that they had yesterday told him the bill for a supply was ready, which they would present to him when he had passed the others before him; that some of the House had desired his Com- pany to a Glass of wine at a Tavern in the Evening, that they might shew him the bill there ; that he had accepted their Invitation, and went to them at the Bull head, where they offered him the Bill to peruse, but that he had refused to take any notice of it unless they would present it him regularly, to be laid before the Council, which they had promised to propose to the House, and if it were agreed to, he should receive it this morning; but that being now far spent, and nothing further being heard from them, the Govr. desired the advice of the Board what measures might be proper next to take, which being debated a message in writing was Resolved on, wch. being drawn up, was read and agreed to in these words :
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