USA > Pennsylvania > Colonial records of Pennsylvania, Vol. II > Part 49
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The method of Establishing Courts by the Govr. and Council was also well understood in great Brittain, and was approved of there, as being grounded on unquestionable powers granted the Proprietary ; the Bill formerly prepared by the Assembly for that purpose, which is now before the Board, has not been allowed of ; but seeing the present Establishment, which was drawn, as I am Informed, accord- ing to the plan laid down in the Bill, Carries some Inconveniences with it, and requires an alteration ; I shall be Ready to agree to any other Reasonable Bill that you shall hereafter propose for settling Courts of Judicature in such a Regular method as may be a Lasting Rule for Holding them.
I have no Instructions, Gentlemen, from her Majesty that will Concern you ; Those from the Proprietary being to myself, as Occa- sion offers, & where it may be proper, I shall acquaint you with the particulars. I have ordered Copies of my Commission & her Ma- jesty's approbacon to be prepared & Deliver'd you.
I shall now propose to your serious consideration some other mat- ters of the highest importance, without wch Govmt. Cannot Long Subsist, as a due provision for the support of it, & for ye Security of ye people, but what I shall principally Recommend to you at this
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time is in the Latter part of yº Paragraph of your address, (vizt :) to prepare a Bill for settling by Law how money shall be paid upon Contracts made, & to be made, before the new Currency of money takes effect ; this, as I find by the great uneasiness of the people, is a Matter Will Require a very speedy Provision, & therefore hope you will find such Just & equal methods for it as neither Drs, on the one hand, nor the Credrs. on the other, may suffer by the altera- tion ; to which I desire you may Forthwith proceed with as little loss of time as is possible, after wch we may have opportunity to Enter into the Consideration of such other matters as may naturally fall before you.
At a Council held at Philadia., ye 15th of April, 1709.
PRESENT :
The Honble. CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Lt. Governr.
Edward Shippen,
Saml. ffinney,
Saml. Carpenter,
Willm. Trent,
Joseph Growdon,
Richd. Hill,
Jasper Yeates,
Esq'rs.
Is. Norris,
Esq'rs.
Caleb Pusey,
Saml. Preston, Capt. Palmer.
James Logan,
The members who were of the late Lt. Govrs. Council, viz : the first nine members presented to the Govr. the following address, signed under all their hands.
To ye Honble. Charles Gookin, Esqr., Lt Governr. of ye Province of Pennsylvania, & Countie of N. Castle, Kent & Sussex, upon Delaware.
May it please the Governour :
We, the members of Council for ye said Province, who attended the board During the Administration of ye late Lt. Govr., upon viewing the Address presented by the Assemby on the 9th of March last, Think ourselves obliged to observe, that in the first paragraph of it complaining of grievances & oppressions, wch (they say) this poor Province has for some time Laboured under, occasioned by the irregular administration of the late Deputy Governour, (they have thought fitt to add these words,) Who was too much influenced by evil Council, to whom the Miseries & Confusion of the State & Divisions in this Governmt. are principally owing :
It was long (may it please the Governour,) before we could In- duce ourselves to believe that men so well acquainted with the Char- acters of most of us in our several stations in ye Countrey Could pos- sibly intend us by ye Charge, until by the observations of others we were forced to take a nearer notice of ye Expression, upon wch we are Sorry to find yt the word Council, as there used, Together with the general Construction of the Sentence, seems not to admitt of any other Interpretation, but to us principally is owing whatever the as- sembly has thought fitt to complain of, or can Reduce under the General Terms they have used ; if they will disavow any such Inten-
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tion, we shall Crave no other satisfaction ; but if not, we must then desire that they and all men concerned in those affairs may know.
That Notwithstanding the Proprietary & late Lt. Govr., according to the established rules in all Govmts. whatsoever, from the most polite to the most Barbarous nations in the world, finding themselves under a necessity of having a Council about them to advise with in affairs of Governmt., have thought fitt to Choose us for that ser- vice, in which according to the best of our Judgment & abilities ; Yet not one of us receives or Ever did Expect any other advantage by it than the satisfaction of having Discharged our Dutys to the Country We Live in, & to advance the Prosperity & happiness of it as much as Lye in our Power, We have no salaries or allowance paid us by the Countys for this, nor offices of Profit to Encourage us; What we do is at our own Expence of Time, Trouble & Charge, & upon our own Estates is all our Dependence, which is giving us as good an Interest in the Country as others Can pretend to, And being out of the reach of any Possible Views Different from the good of the whole, no man, without a manifest Violence to his reason, Can Imagine but that we are as much concerned, and therefore would be as Carefull to prevent & Divert any Miseries, Confusion & Divisions that may threaten the Province, as any other Sett of men whatso- ever, so that this Charge from the Assembly, if Levelled against us, is not only Unjust, but will be judged, we believe Exceedingly un- grateful by all that Impartially Consider us & our Circumstances amongst our Neighbours.
After this general accusation, Involving us in all things that have been Irregularly committed, or that any person can think so to have been, they Enumerate from Particulars wch they call aggrievances. To the first two we have nothing to say, and we hope no man Can believe any that any one of us was so much as privy to them, much less that we advised them ; we here Solemnly Declare Each for him- self, that we did not advise the Treasurer to Take his Directions from the Law alone, and without regard to the particular orders of the Assembly to the Contrary, to make his payment In Equal pro- portions, wch we hope Cannot be counted aggrievance, & in the next to prevent that Greatest of all posssible grievances, the want of Pub- lick Justice, of wch by the measures Taken by the Assembly, of that time the Countrey was Long Deprived; We advised the Govr. to make use of the powers with wch he was manifestly Invested to open the Courts again. & to Restore the Course of Justice to the oppressed Countrey, who had long Languished thro' the want of it untill they could be otherwise Established. Men unacquainted with affairs of this kind, & who must take their Informacon from others may be Imposed upon by persons Designs, & believe that to be Irregular which in its self is a most wholesome & necessary Act, but we can wth assurance affirm, that we had full satisfacon from men of the best abilities, that what we advised & Concurred in this matter was regular, Just & Legal. Upon the whole, May it please the Governour, tho' on ye one hand we shall be Exceedingly unwilling
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to have any misunderstanding wth the Representatives of the people; Well knowing it to be an unhappiness that all reasonable measures should be taken to prevent; Yet on the other, We shall not by any Contrivances be Diverted from Discharging the Trust Reposed in us During our Continuance in this station, wth honour & Justice to the best of our abilities ; But from time to time shall offer to the Govr. such advice as we shall Judge most Conducive to the General good of the Province, in the Welfare of wch we are so nearly Con- cerned in our several private Interests, and in the meantime hope we may Justly Expect to be secured from Callumnies & misrepresenta- tions.
Philad., Ap. 7th, 1709.
With an Exception to wt is said of offices of profit, tho' I hold none as a member of Council : I sign this. JAMES LOGAN.
Caleb Pusey, Willm. Trent,
Richard Hill, Edward Shippen,
Jasper Yeates, Saml. Carpenter,
] Saml. ffinney, Joseph Growdon.
Which being Read, he promised to send it as he Received it, to the Assembly for their Consideracon.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 16th of April, 1709. PRESENT :
The Honble. CHARLES GOOKIN, Esquire, Leiut. Govr.
Edwd Shippen, Samuel ffinney,
r
William Trent, Richard Hill,
Caleb Pusey, Esq'rs. Isaac Norris, Esq'rs.
Joseph Growdon,
James Logan,
Saml. Preston, Anthoy Palmer, J
İ
Jasper Yeates,
The Govr. laid before the board an answer to his speech, wch he had reced. from the Assembly, at the same time he DD. then the foregoing address of the Council, which ansr. was read in these words.
May it please the Govr. :
The Coppy of the Speech DD. us the 13th Instant, has been De- liberately read, & duly Considered by this House, and though we could have been glad that there had been no occasion for the Late hints we gave thee of some of the oppressions and aggrievances which this Province hath for some time Laboured under, yet the hopes thou hast been pleased to Give us by thy Resolutions of Endeavouring the Peoples Ease and Happiness is very satisfactory to us, for wch in the behalf of ourselves & all the people of this Province, We hereby Return Hearty & Thankful acknowledgments. We are unanimously of opinion with thee, that 'twill be of our great Happiness to follow the Queen's good Example, and that of her Parliament in the admin- istracon at home, 'tis doubtless owing to the Constitution, & height- ened by the Excellent Disposition of the Queen, whose Just, mild & gentle Governmt., hath worthily gained her a great & Glorious Repu- VOL. II .- 19
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tacon, as well as tender affeccon in the hearts of her subjects, in being as ready to give her Royal assent to good Laws for their bene- fit & address their aggrievances, as the Parliamt. can be to Lay them before her; & if we can be so happy as to take the same methods here, wherein our endeavours shall not be wanting, we doubt not but the Inhabitants will soon be sensible of the good effects of it. We hope this Assembly is wholly clear from animosities to any, & do beseech thee not to be Imposed on by such as may Endeavour to Create hard thoughts in thee towards this House, who are fully Re- solved to follow the advice thou hast been pleased to give us, viz: to proceed to the business before us, with that freedom of Temper & unbiassed inclination wch thou hast Recommended ; We are sensible that those gross acts of the late Lt. Govr. are not unknown to some in Great Brittain, & though thou hast no Immediate Directions to make Enquiry into them; yet when the Assembly, as the grand Inquisitors of the Province have Informed thee of such horrid abuses & acts of Hostility & Violence, as he has been guilty of against the Queen's Crown & Dignity, in raising men & arms, & firing at the Queen's Peaceable subjects, to the Endangering their Lives instead of Protecting them, which are taken to be acts of a Treasonable na- ture, we hope notwithstanding the advice thou has had, that thou will be pleased further to Consider whether it be not incumbent on thee to take Cognizance thereof, or at Least Concur in some method that such Evil ministers may not Escape with Impunity, but be brought to punishment suitable to their Demerits, as well as for Ex- ample & Terror to others.
The House is somewhat surprized, that the Council of the Prov- ince should understand from our mention of the Late Deputy Govr., his being too much Influenced by Evil Counsel, that we design'd the Council in general, or that the miseries & Confusions in the state & Govmt. were principally owing to them, wch we never intended, but on the Contrary believe most of them to be Well wishers to & pro- moters of the Interest of the Province, & accordingly value & Esteem them, & do hereby Declare, that we designed that Charge against the present Secry., James Logan, with some others not of the Govrs. Council, to whose advice & practice the miserys & Confusions in this Govmt. are Chiefly owing, as we shall be Ready to make appear when thou Gives us an opportunity. In the meantime, it is our Earnest Request and Cordial advice, that thou may not be Influenced by the said James Logan, nor any others, to Create misunderstand- ings between thee & the Representatives of the People, which we are satisfied has been his subterfuge; but we shall Insist no farther at present, save to Request thee as thy former Assembly Did, thy Pre- decessors to Remove him from thy Council.
The Treasurers answer is no ways satisfactory to this House, nor have the Council (who are Represented by us) any Right to Order the Disposal of that money, & the Law is plain in the Case as we shall be necessitated to let him know.
And as for the Collectors of the taxes, if thou please to Consult the Law in that behalf, thou wilt find directions how the Governour
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and Council is to proceed against such Offenders, and we Doubt, unless that Law be prosecuted, and new Collectors appointed speedily the Taxes will remain uncollected to the great injury of the People in General, as well as of particular persons, & obstruct the raising of New supplies.
The method of Establishing Courts of Judicature by the Govr. and Council, however approved of by some in Great Bittain, as Grounded on the Proprietary's Power we will still object against ; That the bill formerly prepared not being allowed of, or some other proposed wherewith the Assembly might have Concurred, has ad- ministered great Cause of dissatisfaction and complaint, & especially the want of Regulating & Settling the fees, (which as now taken) are very extravagant. If any Inconveniencey's appear in the Draughts now before the Board, we shall readily concur in such alterations as may be necessary for the good of the People, wch we intreat thee to acquaint us with as soon as possible, being Unanimously of opinion that the present method of holding Courts & Exacting fees is Illegal & arbitrary, & infringements on the Rights of the Queen's free born subjects.
We are given to understand thou hadst Instructions from the Queen which it was supposed might concern us as the Representa- tives of the people, but shall at present acquiesce with thy answer on that head, those from the Proprietary are such as allow thee fully to Represent him here as Lt. Governr., without Limitation or Restric- tion. We desire that authentic copies of thy Commission & the Queens approbation may be forthwith sent us, in order to our Regu- lar proceeding to the business before us; The making all due pro- vision for the support of Govmt. and security of the People is what we hold to be our Duty, wch we shall always be ready to do as oc- casion offers so far as Lyes in our Power, & for the Bill thou has been pleased principally to recommend at this time, we are so sensi- ble of the Necessity of it, that we shall make it our first business to Consider of it & prepare it, after which we hope and expect a redress of our Grievances, & thy ready concurrence to such bills as shall be laid before thee for Establishing the People in their Just Rights, Liberties & Properties, & in so doing thou wilt not only manifest thy self an Instrument of blessing & Praise to this Province, but be confirmed in the Sincere & good opinion & affections of this Assem- bly, & of all the good people Represented by us, whose great expec- tations of thy Justice & kindness Towards them, we trust thou wilt Effectually answer. N. C. D.
Signed by Order of the House, DAV'D LLOYD, Speaker.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 20th of April, 1709. PRESENT :
The Honble CHARLES GOOKIN, Esqr., Lieut. Govr.
Edward Shippen, Samuel Carpenter, Joseph Growdon, Caleb Pusey, James Logan,
Richard Hill,
Esq'rs.
Isaac Norris, Samuel Preston, Antny. Palmer,
Esq'rs.
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The Govr. laid before the Board a bill just now Deliv'd him from the Assembly, Intituled an Act against unjust Exactions & Extor- tions in paymts. of former contracts, wch because he was obliged immediately to take horse for New Castle, where their Supream Court is to sitt to Morrow, he recommended the Consideration of the said Bill to the Council who are better acquainted with affairs of such a Nature, & Desire them to prepare & give their opinion of it at his Return.
That Council took the said bill into consideration & agreed on the following amendments.
That the Title should be an act of ascertaining the payment of Debts, and for preventing Exactions on Contracts & Bargains made before the first Day of May, 1709.
That all rents Reserved for ever, & Rents held by Lease for 7 years, not yet expired should be excepted.
That no price shall be sett on English money or Gold, ye first being unsafe, and the latter needless.
But a scheme being offered to the Board by a member of it, by which it was proposed that one great point necessary to be provided for in the Regulation now in hand, viz : the Lowering of Commodi- ties equally with the fall of money, should be universally introduced in all sales whatsoever ; the said member was ordered to draw up the same in form, and have it ready against the next meeting of the Council at the Govrs. Return, & then adjourned.
At a Council held at Philadia., ye 25th of April, 1709.
PRESENT :
The same as before.
The scheme ordered to be prepared at the last sitting of the Board was read, and approved of, & ordered to be carried to the Assembly in the morning, by Saml. Carpenter, & Saml. Preston.
A message from the House, desiring the Govrs. answer to the Bill they had presented on the 20th Instant : Promised in ye morning.
Ordered, that the objections made to the bill, should be drawn up by the Secry. to be sent with the scheme in the morning, wch. was done as follows :
Observations on the Bill against unjust Exactions, &c., proposed by the Assembly to the Govr., with objections.
The Title ought to be in terms more directly & Expressly answer- ing the design.
The Bill itself seems to have regard to nothing but the Ease of Debtrs. in discharging their Contracts made before the first Day of May, and is very well Drawn to answer that purpose; But as the Govr. proposed to the Assembly to make such provision in this Case, as that neither the Debtr. on the one hand, nor the Creditor on the other, should be sufferers by the alteration, yet no such provision for the Credr. is made by the Bill ; Tis therefore thought absolutely ne- cessary to find some method to make one hundd. ounces of silver as
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valuable to ye Receiver after the 1st of May, as it was before, with- out which the Credr. must Certainly suffer in proportion to the Differ- ence. To obviate this, a method has been proposed & approved by the Govr. & Council; & for greater ease 'tis in part thrown into the form of a Bill sent herewith, but may require to be further Consid- ered & Digested.
In this scheme it was thought necessary to enlarge the Preambles, those being the best Expositions of the Design of an act, and seeing it will be necessary to cause this act when passed, to be printed & scattered amongst all sorts of People, as well those of the meanest as the best Capacities, it was thought necessary to use such Language in these Preamblies as would render the act most plain and Easy to be understood.
The proposal in the 2d part, (viz : that all Bargains should be made in the old Currency, but be paid in the new, by abating one fourth part of the sum, such an abatement being Exactly proportion- able to the fall in the Denomination of money, tis probable may ap- pear somewhat strange at first view, yet when Closely weighed & Considered, 'tis presumed that it will be found at least a very good Expedient towd's. obtening an end that's absolutely necessary ; for without some effectual way to Lower the prices of Commodities, it would be Injustice to assent to the first part of the Bill.
There are great objections made against the alterations in Rents, especially in those reserved for ever, for which reason in the Draught now sent they're excepted. The Govr. can by no means think it safe to touch with or mention any English Coin in the act, and to make so great a Disproportion between the values of Gold & Silver above their Intrinsick worth, would shew us Resolved to be unreason- able or irregular in whatever is left in our Power.
If any thing proposed be not agreed to, The Assembly is desired without Loss of time to discourse it by proper Conferences, and ye said objections were sent as ordered. Adjourned till morning.
At a Council held at Philadia, ye 27th of April, 1709, at J. Grow- dons.
PRESENT :
The same as before, with the Capt. Roche added.
The Govr. acquainted the Board, that the Assembly, according to the proposal made to them in the last message from this Board, de- sired a Conference upon the subject matter in hand, & that he had accordingly appointed this morning for it.
The House of Representatives attended and being seated, the Govr. opened the Conference, by desiring that such parts of the scheme offered to them which they could not comply with, as they appeared by their marginal notes upon the said scheme, wch they had yester- day presented to him, might be freely Debated between the members of Council & the Assembly.
The Speaker and Jos. Wilcox managed the Conference in behalf of the Assembly, and a considerable time being spent in the Debating
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whether it was reasonable that money hereafter should pass for the Discharge of former Contracts at the same rates it had heretofore done, unless due Provision were made far lowering the prices of Commodities to be bought or sold in proportion to the fall in the de- nomination of money ; the Debate was adjourned till three in the afternoon, at which time the Council was appointed to meet the As- sembly in the same place where the Assembly usually sitts, being the most Convenient that at present can be found, & there Endeavour to conclude upon what is most reasonable, in order to have the Bill past before this month expires.
-
POST MERIDIEM, hora 3ia, Iidem qui antea.
The Council according to appointment mett the Assembly & debat- ed all the matters in Difference for several Hours, but not coming to a perfect agreement, it was resolved between both, that a Committee should be appointed of the Council & another of the Assembly, to Draw the Bill in such terms as might on the one hand, answer the Design of Lowering the prices of Commodities proportionably to the fall in the Denomination of money, & on the other should not inter- fere with any part of the act of parliament, and for this purpose Judge Growdon, Rd. Hill & the Secry. were nominated in behalf of the Council, and Joseph Wilcox, Abraham Bickley, & Jno. Cook, in behalf of the Assembly. And the Conference ended.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 29th of April, 1709.
PRESENT :
Ye Honble CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Lt. Govr.
Edwd. Shippen, Joseph Growdon,
Richard Hill,
Isaac Norris,
Saml. Carpenter,
Caleb Pusey, James Logan,
1 Esq'rs. Samuel Preston,
Antny. Palmer, 1 Esq'rs.
The Govr. laid before the board the Bill as he had this day reced it from the House, wch was again read, but it appeared that they had not Comply'd with those alterations which had been so much urged & pressed on them, & which the members of the Committee, wch according to appointment of ye 27th Inst., had yesterday sat upon it, declared to have been agreed to by the Committee of the Assembly.
The whole bill was from the beginning largely debated again, & it was largely argued at the board, whether seeing the Assembly had not agreed to such reasonable proposals as had been made to them, it would be convenient or advisable to pass the Bill at all, & whether the passing such a bill would be safe to the Govr. on any terms at all ; But after very long debates, it was at length Resolved, that the Bill should pass with Certain amendments, which were as follows :
After Bargains and Contracts add, (made in this Province,) ffees
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settled by Law hereafter accruing, if paid in the old Currency, would incur the forfeiture of the act of Parliament, therefore add fees due before ye 1st of May.
Lion Dollars ought not to pass hereafter at 6 sh. for ye payment of old Contracts, because the Receiver, according to the act of Par- liament, would lose more by them than by Spanish money, which would be unreasonable.
Imprisonmt. to be left out of the penalty.
A provision for Lowering the prices of wages, fees & Commodities in general, to be added as 'tis herewith sent.
Caleb Pusey & the Secry. were ordered to carry these amendments to the House early in the morning, & to explain the reasons that induced the Council to make them, & to press the House forthwith to Comply with them as they tender'd the passing of the Bill ; and then adjourned.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 30th of April, 1709, at J. Growdons.
PRESENT :
The same as yesterday.
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