USA > Pennsylvania > Colonial records of Pennsylvania, Vol. II > Part 58
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The Address of the Representatives of ye sd. Province in Assem- bly mett.
May it please the Govr. :
We, the Representatives of the Province of Pennsylvania, are duly thankful for thy favourable speech to us, & the good assurances thou art pleased to give us of thy ready Assent, to such bills as we shall prepare & offer for the Countrey's welfare.
And we Cannot but very particularly express our satisfaccon in thy grateful Resolution to settle among us, & that thou art pleased so to Engage wth us in one Common Bottom, as to have no other aims but the Interest of the People we Represent. We have reason to hope, & shall always Endeavour for the Establishment of such a mutual Confidence, as shall not only facilitate or shorten the means but Effectually obtain those Ends ; And Doubt not but that when we shall take into Consideration what Bills may be necessary for the Good & utility of the Province, that of the support will also fall under our care.
We take Regardful notice of the Dispatch thou art pleased to re- commend to us, and therefore, that we may the more Diligently & Closely attend the Publick affairs when we sett about them, which for several reasons we cannot so effectually pursue at present ; We crave leave to acquaint the Govr., that we have inclinations to adjourn to some time in the beginning of December, if that may suit the Govrs. leisure.
RICHD. HILL, Speaker.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 24th of Janry., 1710-11.
PRESENT :
The Honble CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr. Edward Shippen, r Saml. Preston,
Samuel Carpenter, Esq'rs. Antny. Palmer, 1 Esq'rs. Thomas Story,
The Govr. laid before the board the bill for Establishing the Courts of Judicature of this Province, As also the Bill for Establishing ffees, wch he said he reced. last night, from three of the members of As- sembly, And the Bill of Courts was read over; And then adjourned till afternoon.
POST MERIDIEM, the same as above.
The Bill of Courts was again read & Considered, Paragraph by Paragraph, and some amendments made thereto, wch. were ordered to be fairly Transcribed, and sent to the House of Representatives.
At a Council held at Philadia, the 25th of Janry., 1710-11. PRESENT :
The Honble. CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Lieut. Govr. Edwd. Shippen, Saml. Preston,
Saml. Carpenter.
Thos. Story, S Esq'rs. Antny. Palmer. Esq'rs.
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PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.
The amendments to the Bill of Courts being fairly Transcribed were read, and are as follows :
By the Govr. in Council, Proposal of amendments to the bill of Courts, 25th of January, 1710-11.
Page 1, line 5. That the Supream Court be held at Philadia. for the whole Province, which will be a great deal less cost to the Pub- lick, & less Trouble to the Judges & the Countrey, & answer the ends much better.
Line 10. Since it is a great Difficultie to find Judges (as we are circumstanced,) to officiate in the several Courts, Three, or any Two may be sufficient ; and since it is not to be expected that the Gent. of the Countrey will always accept of & undergo so much trouble & ffatigue, to the great Loss & Detriment of their own affairs; some Encouragement should be thought on to engage a Judge knowing in the Laws of England, who would be best able to Discharge this Trust.
30. The Proprietor & Govr., or his Ltt. for the time being, to nominate & Commission Clerks & prothonotaries.
Pa. 2d, 1. 40. If the Supream Court be held at Philadelphia, this Clause & some others in the Bill must be adapted accordingly.
Pa. 7, 1. 20. Leave out the words (for support of Govmt.,) be- cause all such things are perquisites belonging to the Proprietary & Govr. as his property granted him by ye Crown, & ought not to be appropriated to any other use.
Pa. 8, 1. 30. There being great Inconveniencies daily observed in the County of Philadia., in holding the Qr. sessions & Common Pleas in the same Week, it would be best to separate them two or three weeks, & the Court of Pleas to be held there 6 times a year, and then no need of a six weeks Court.
Pa. 8, 1. 40. Since the Commissionating of Clerks already be- longs to the Proprietary & Govr., there is no need of this Clause.
Pa. 11, 1. 25. Since the best of the Commons of England of what Degree of Freehold soever, are not Exempted from arrests in Cases of Debt; & since few will be served by such an Exemption but those who least Deserve it, lett this Clause & its subsequent Depen- dence be wholly omitted, & the Plt. left to his Discretion what pro- cess to take out.
Line 25. The Execucon upon a Judgment in"Great Britain is against Body, Lands or goods, at the Pits, Election, only he Can't have all at once , & if more be insisted on here, it may hazard the whole Bill, a man may have a good Estate in Goods When Exe- cucon is awarded, & if his person be protected against his Creditors, he may Conceal & Embezel his Goods, & the Creditor be defrauded, besides many other Inconveniences.
Pa. 16, 1. 36. There are some Patents for offices in the Govmt. during Good Behaviour therein, wch. may be for Life, where the officer Continues Carefull & honest ; and an official misdemeanour being that only by wch. he Can be Deprived, ought not to be at the Judgment of any, without matter of Fact Duly found by a Jury, &
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the Laws being already full against any officer in any Case wherein he Can offend, this Clause is altogether needless.
Pa. 17, 1. 10. Except only where any thing necessary to be Done has no fee provided by any Law of the Province, there it is Better the Justices to have power to ascertain fees till the Laws provide than the officers to be left at large. A Clause of Special Courts should be added to the Bill.
Order'd, that Saml. Preston & Antny. Palmer Carry the said Pro- posals of amendments to the House.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 27th of Janry., 1710-11.
PRESENT :
Ye Honble CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr. Edwd. Shippen, r Thos. Story,
Joseph Growdon, Esq'rs. Saml. Preston. Esq'rs.
Saml. Carpenter,
The Govr. laid before the board several Bills he had received from the Assembly, whch were read, and left to be again read & con- sidered Monday next.
A Peticon of several of the Inhabitants & freeholders of the town- ships of Buckingham & Solbury, was read, praying that a Conve- nient Road may be laid out & Establish'd from those upper parts of Philadia., according to the Courses & manner following, vizt : To, begin at the side of the River of Delaware opposite to John Reading's landing, from thence the most & Convenient Course to Buckingham meeting house, & from thence the most Direct and Convenient Course through the Land of Thos. Watson on the North side, And from thence ye most Direct & Convenient Course to Stephen Jenkins on the West side of his house, and from thence the most Direct & Con- venient Course by the House late Richard Walls, now in the posses- sion of George Shoemaker, and so forward the most Direct & Con- venient Courses to Philadia., wch said Peticon being signed by a great many of the Inhabitants ; And the said Road promising, as in- tended to be laid out, to be of great use and service to the Publick. It is therefore Granted by this Board, and it is Order'd, (as Desired) That Thos. Watson, Jno. Scarbrough, Jacob Holcombe, Nathl. Byle, Matthew Hughes, Joseph Fell, Saml. Cart, Stephen Jenkins, Thos. Halliwell, Griff Miles, Job Goodson & Isaac Norris, or some six of them do lay out the same Road, & make their Return of the Courses thereof into the Secry's office, within six months from this Day.
At a Council held at Philadelpia., the 29th of Janry., 1710-11. PRESENT :
The Honble CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr.
Edward Shippen, Joseph Growdon, ? Esq'rs. Thos. Story,
Saml. Preston. Esq'rs.
Samll. Carpenter,
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PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.
The Bills were now again read, & the amendments were made to them and ordered to be Ingrossed agst. tomorrow morning.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 30th of Janry., 1710-11.' PRESENT :
The Honble. CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr.
Edward Shippen,
Thos. Story,
Joseph Growdon, Esq'rs. Samll. Preston,
Griffith Owen, Antny. Palmer,
Esq'rs.
The Amendments being Ingrossed, were read in these words.
By the Govr. in Council, proposals of amendment to the Bill Inti- tuled an act for the further securing the admracon. of the Govmt.
Page 1. 5. Provided always, that nothing herein contained shall be construed to give any power or authority to an such Council as aforesaid, to act in any matter of Legislacon in the said Govmt., but in the admrcon. only according to ye Laws for the time being.
ffor Establishing & Regulating fees.
P. 1. The Inducemt. to this Law suggesting great reflections on the officers in general, which they will not own to be due. It were better to make for prevencon. of such Practices that may arise for the future.
P. ult. The officers are restricted from any Larger or other fees than in the Bill Enumerated under certain Penalties, which may be Injurious where any thing necessary to be done by them, is forgot to be inserted in the Table of Fees, & therefore a Clause to obviate such Contingents should be superadded ; And the officers being obliged to sett up Tables of their fees, may be well if the Penalty be adapted to the nature of the offence, but £20 is more than the nature of the Crime, Especially since they are obliged to give bills of par- ticulars of those things for which they receive their money. Oficers refusing to sign proper receipts, or taking undue fees, to forfeit Treble Damages to the party grieved.
An act of Privilege to a freeman.
This being a Clause of Magna Charta hath its Effect here as in Great Brittian, and so needless to be re-Enacted, however the Govr. agrees to it.
An act for Priority of Debts, &c.
To this the Govr. agrees.
An act to prevent Disputes about the Dates of Conveyances, &c. The Govr. assents to it.
An act against riotous sports.
This the Govr. agrees to.
For the Establishing & Regulating ferries.
P. 2. 5. This bill imposing persons upon the Govr. to be Licensed does not leave him a free agent, Which he ought to be in all like Cases. That privilege being reserved, regard may be had to the persons proposed. The Govr. and his proper Retinue & the Post on all occasions to be free.
An act for Recording of Deeds.
P. 4. The officer is obliged preemtarily to yield up the office & 22*
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writings undefaced, &c. Under the Penalty of his Bond, & not a sufficient Provision in Case of accidents or Providential Casualities as fire, &c. Besides, if the Deeds lye so long in the office as the officer alleges, it may be Difficult to preserve 'em from Ratts & mice, all which a short proviso may Guard.
P. 1. 5. Make the fees here & the bills of fees agree.
An act about Publick Houses.
Since the Publick Houses pay no duty or Excise, and have the full advantage of their Imploy, It is proposed that the fees for Licenses be ££3 for the City of Philadia., 40 sh. for Countrey Towns & Vilages, & 30 sh. for the Countrey. As to the officers they have been fully heard at the board, & have inserted some that were omitted in the bill, the Govr. is ready & willing to settle the fees, & would neither have the Country abused nor the officers Discouraged.
Which being read, Saml. Preston & Antny. Palmer were Ord'd. to Carry 'em to ye House.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 3d of febry., 1710-11. PRESENT :
The Honble CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr.
Edwd. Shippen, Thos. Story, - Esq'rs.
Joseph Growdon, Esq'rs.
Saml. Preston.
Saml. Carpenter,
The Govr. laid before the board the Assembly's answer to his Proposals of amendmts. to the bills of Courts, which were read, and are as follows.
P. 1, 1. 5. The Representatives of the Counties think it most safe and satisfactory, That the Supream Court be held in each County as per the bill.
L. 10. The House is opinion the four Judges in Commission is a more suitable number, and no more Charge than Three, if any Two have power as per the bill.
The House agrees That the Respective Counties, as occasion shall require, allow & pay the Judges officiating, Twenty shillings per Day each During their holding the Court, and Ten shillings for every Judgment, To be paid by the person condemned.
L. 30. The House agrees that the propry. or Govr., for the time being Commissionate Clerks as the Charter of Privileges Directs.
P. 2, L. 40. If the Supream Courts be held in the Respective Counties, (as this House thinks it most agreeable,) This Clause stands as in the Bill.
P. 7, L. 20. The House agrees that this be amended as proposed by the Govr.
P. 8, L. 30. 'Tis the unanimous opinion of this House, yt the times for holding Courts stand as in the Bill, for that to multiply the Courts or separate them, as proposed, will increase the Charge. & prove Burthensome to the people.
P. 8, L. 40. The House thinks this Clause is of use, and does not interfere with any objection the Govr. has made.
P. 11, L. 25. The House is opinion, that this Clause & its De-
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pendance stand as in the bill, being agreeable to the Law of this Province, and what the freeholders account their Just Privilege.
L. 25. The House agrees that Execuon of a Judgment be as pro- posed against Body, Lands or Goods, at the Plts. Election, having regard to the Directions of the Laws of this Province in the Execuon of Lands.
P. 16, L. 36. The House cannot be of opinion that this Clause is wholly useless, But agree yt the Removal of officers be upon a Legal Conviccon of official misbehaviour.
P. 17, L. 10. The Assemblys of this Province for some years past have had the Bill for Establishing fees under Consideration, And the officers as frequently Called on for Tables of their fees, so that 'tis hoped their is no great omissions; Therefore this House is of opinion such Restrictions as in the bill are necessary.
The House agrees that the Clause be added for holding special Courts when occasion may require, on any persons' sudden Departure out of the Province, if not already supplied by some other Law of this Govmt.
Also the Assembly's answer to the Govrs. proposals of amend- ments to several Bills, were read, and are as follows :
The Assembly's answer to the Govrs. Proposals of amendments to the Bill Intituled an act for the further securing the administraon of ye Govmt.
Pa. 1, L. 5. 'Tis the opinion of the House, That to exclude the President and Council form a power to act in Legislaon, (in Case of the Ltt. Govrs. Death or removal,) would be such a defect in the Constitution as must render the same incapable to obey the immedi- ate Commands of the Crown in the greatest Emergencies ; for which reason the Queen has thought fitt to repose this Trust in the same authority in her plantation, and made no objection thereto in the former Law, To which the Propry. also assented.
To the act for Establishing & Regulating ferries.
Pa. 2, L. 5. This House agrees to the Exception of the Govrs. person and proper Retinue. as also Expresses of the Govmt .; But are of opinion if the Post shall be exempted, it may be better done in the Bill to regulate the fees of that office ; & that the Govrs. concurrence to this Law is a sufficient approbacon of the persons named in the same, who being owners of the Lands at the Respective ferries, and willing to keep the same may deserve a preference during good behaviour.
To the act for Recording of Deeds.
Page 4. The House agrees that a Clause be added to the Bill for Inroling of Deeds, to prompt the parties concerned to pay for the same, and that the fees be made agreeable with the Bill of fees, When it is agreed on.
To the act about Publick Houses, The House agrees that three pounds be paid for a License in Philadia., if they sell Wine and other liquors, if not wine but other Liquors, forty shillings ; & for a Ly- cense to sell all sorts of Liquors in the Towns of Bristoll, ffranckfurt, Germantown, Derby, Chester & Chichester, shall be forty shillings
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each, and for the same in any other part of the Countrey, Thirty shillings, & no more.
The Govr. also laid upon the board two acts he had reced. from the House, one Intituled an act Directing the affirmation to such who for Conscience sake cannot take an oath, the other an act for Estab- lishing the lower ferry on the River Schuylkill, which were read & Partly Considered, but the further Consideracon of them is adjourned till Monday next at nine a Clock.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 5th of febry., 1710 -- 11.
PRESENT :
The Honble. CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr. Edward Shippen,
Griffith Owen,
Joseph Growdon, Eqs'rs.
Samuel Preston, Esq'rs.
Samuel Carpenter, Anthony Palmer,
The Assembly's answer to the Govrs. proposals of amendments to the bill of Courts and the other bills were again read, and the follow- ing proposals of amendments made thereto.
In the bill of Courts.
Pa. 1, 1. 10. The Govr. (notwithstanding he can't but be of opinion that the Courts of Justice may be better adapted to the Circumstances of the Countrey by an Ordinance than a Law, the first being easily amended as Inconveniences arise and the Constitution found imprac- ticable, whereas, the other cannot be done without great trouble & Expence) is willing however for the satisfaction of the Countrey, to establish the Courts by a Law, provided it may be done after such a method as may be truly servicable to the Publick, which is all he aims at. The greatest Difficulty he meets with, is the finding of Judges & Justicer of Common Pleas, that will give their constant attendance at the Courts, the Gentlemen of the Countrey being so few and their time so much taken up to detriment of their own affairs, that it Can't be expected they'll give such attendance the nature of the thing will require.
It is proposed by the bill that Supream Court Consists of four Judges, Whereof any two to be a Quor .; this must engage more than is necessary, & it will require the attendance of two Qualified to administer Oaths ; Whereas if any one might act, (as the present Establisment is,) two of the Contrary Perswasions in Religion might sitt together, one having power to Do what's necessary, whether another be present or not ; it is the principal and most material thing in any Govmt. that the Courts of Justice be not only well Established, but that the Judges & Justices, according to the old maxim, do the business of the Day within the Day, & not postpone & adjourn from time to time, Which by another maxime is called the Denial of Justice. If our Constitution be Lame or Impracticable, and the subject thereby hurt, it will be just Cause of Complaint, and it is the Proprietary, not the People, that will be the first object of the Resent- ment of our superiors in Great Brittan ; so yt upon the whole it is
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the Govrs. opinion that it will be Convenient (since the people will have the Constitution proposed) that a Committee of the Council and Assembly confer about the premises, and of some suitable Encour- agement, the better to Engage the Judges attendance, as also about the issuing of Original Process & Concerning the Summoning of Freeholders.
Pa. 8, 1. 40. The Govr. (as before) is of opinion that this Clause is altogether needless, for he does not want Power to Commissionate those officers, and some of those offices are already Granted by Patent from the Proprietary.
To the act for the further securing the administracon of the Govmt. The Govr. notwithstanding what is objected by the House, to his last Proposal of amendment, does insist upon it.
To the act for Establishing & Regulating ferries. The Govr. does not think this a sufficient answer to his proposal of amendment ; he says, (as before) that the bill imposing persons upon him to be Licensed does not leave him a free agent; That privilege being re- served to him, 'tis likely he may have a regard to the persons pro- posed, besides it is said the ferry proposed to be at John Clark's will be very Inconvenient to the Publick.
To the act Directing an affirmation, &c.
Pa. 1, L. 15. In the sentence (such magistrate or proper officer) leave out the word (proper,) being Imployed in the word (such) rela- ting to the word (proper) before.
The precautioning of all Witnesses to be admitted by this affir- macon is here made a necessary part of the Law, as also the Remind- ing of the affirmant of the Legal penalty, which being in their own nature Discretional, & might look very odd if such cautions should be given the propry., or his Govr., or the Justice one to another, or to persons of Greatest note for Integrity, all which may happen ; Besides, such words so often repeated will become very fflatt, take up much time and be Tedious, so that it were better to leave all offi- cers to their Discretion in the premises.
At a Council held at Philadelphia, the 6th of febry., 1710-11.
PRESENT :
The Honble. CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr.
Joseph Growdon, Saml. Carpenter, C
Griffith Owen,
Antny. Palmer. Thomas Story, Esq'rs. Saml. Preston, Esq'rs. Samuel ffinney,
The act for Establishing the Lower ferry on the River Shuylkill was read ; as also a Peticon of Benjamin Chambers, setting forth the great Labour and Expence he has been put to, from time to time, to make the said ferry Useful and Convenient to the Publick, and prayed it might be Considered, and the premises being Debated, it was the opinion of the board, that all ferries are part of the Royalty Granted to the proprietary from the Crown, and should not be Established by any act of Assembly, especially for so long a term as
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Twenty-one years, and therefore the following answer should be sent to the House.
The Govr. conceiving this & all other ferrys to be the Property & part of the Royalty Granted the Propry., therefore he can't give countenance to any such bill.
Yesterday amendments to the several Bills were now again read, & were ordered to be carried by Samuel Carpenter & Capt. ffinney to the House.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 9th of febry., 1710-11.
PRESENT :
The Honble CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr.
Joseph Growdon,
Thomas Story,
Samuel Carpenter, Esq'rs. Samuel Preston,
Griffith Owen, Anthony Palmer.
Esq'rs. Š
A Committee of the whole House of Representatives waited upon the Govr., pursuant to his message of ye 5th Inst., and ye amend- ments proposed by ye Govr. to the bill of Courts were debated, & after much time spent thereupon ye Conference broke up, and the members returned to the House ; whereupon it is ordered, that the Secry. draw up whats proper Relating to the Conferrence, and lay it before the board to morrow morning.
At a Council held at Philadia., the 10th of febry., 1710-11. PRESENT :
Ye Honble CHA. GOOKIN, Esqr., Ltt. Govr. Joseph Growdon,
Samll. Preston,
Samll. Carpenter, $ Esq'rs. Antny. Palmer.
Esq'rs.
Thomas Story,
The Secry. having drawn up something relating to the Confer- rence, the same was read & Considered.
The Govr., by his last message to the House, assuring them that he was willing, for the satisfaction of the Countrey, to Establish the Courts by a Law, so it might be done after such a method as would be truly servicable to the Publick, and therefore for the better settling the objections by him made to some parts of the Bill & Dis- patch thereof, he was inclinable that a Committee of the Council and Assembly should confer about the Premises, which has been done, tho' not with the success he hoped for and Expected.
The Govr. Can't but be still of opinion, that four Judges in the Supream Court will be too many, and that for no other reason but that men of Capacity and ability are so scarce in the Countrey, and therefore would rather there were only three, & any one capable of acting, Which would not hinder, but that all together any two or any one might sitt as they thought fitt or occasion require ; and if the House cant at this time Encourage the Judges, by an annual stipend or Salary, they'll be of opinion that 40 Shills. per Diem for the Chief Justice, & 20 Sh. for the other two will be little enough,
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unless it can be thought that private Gentlemen will still continue to serve ye Publick at their own expence of time and Money.
The Govr. is informed by the Justices of this Countrey it would be much more for the Dispatch of business and Publick services, if the Common Pleas was separated from the Sessions of the Peace, for that the Holding 'em together perplexes Bench, Juries, parties & Witnesses ; besides the Justices Can't possible attend them as pro- posed by the Bill.
If the House Continue their opinion that freeholders ought not to be subject to an arrest upon Mean Process, but summoned only, and insist upon it, the Govr. assent to it, tho' 'tis likely to Endanger the whole Bill. As to the acts for the further securing the administra- con of the Govmt., and the act for Establishing ferries, the Govr. refers himself to his former Proposals of Amendments.
Ord'd., that Samll. Preston & Antny, Palmer Carry ye same to the House.
The bill for the better Improving a good Correspondence with the Indians was read, and the following amendments made thereto.
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