USA > Pennsylvania > Colonial records of Pennsylvania, Vol. XIV > Part 28
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But it is objected, in the answer to our message, that " the dis- crimination between original holders of certificates and purchasers must be extremely difficult." Admitting the difficulty, yet it is surmountable. Such a " discrimination" may be made. It can be made, notwithstanding all the obstructions so ingeniously magni- fied by purchasers of certificates, and their friends. It has actually been made, and in an instance quoted in the answer, " the appro- priation of the excise for the benefit of the army;" and accordingly interest is now annually paid for near two hundred thousand pounds, upon certificates retained by the original holders 'till the provision was made, so that more than one-half of the depreciation certifi- cates were, by the said discrimination, excluded, because they were alienated; and if they had not been excluded, the original holders would not have been paid, for the fund is little more than sufficient to discharge their interest. If the like distinction is not made now, criginal holders will find themselves about as much relieved by the present funding plan, as original holders would have been without the distinction in the case mentioned. We are glad that this instance was referred to. It is confessed in the answer that " the most unexceptionable fund is provided to support these certi- ficates of the army." Such it undoubtedly is. Yet, what is the consequence ? These certificates, thus funded, sell at the rate of thirty or thirty-five pounds cash, for an hundred in certificates. Does not this fact prove how much more than "extremely difficult it is to restore public credit" by the efforts of one of these States.
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But, whatever difficulty may occur in making the discrimina. tion alluded to in our message, that is, in limiting the provision to be made to the original holders of certificates who at the time. of becoming creditors of the United States, were, and still continue citizens of Pennsylvania, now having their homes therein, and the executors and administrators of such as have deceased since the debts so contracted, and those who hold them by donations for be- nevolent purposes, we are convinced that the difficulty will be much greater in making the discrimination proposed in the funding bill, and that, in executing that bill, if passed into a law, it will be impossible to guard against abuses and frauds.
Reverence for public stipulations compell us to make another re- flection on this "fund to support the certificates of the army." The excise is, and then was, payable in gold and silver. The pub- lic faith of this State was solemnly given, with all the sanctions of law, to the officers and soldiers of the Pennsylvania line, that " the said appropriation of the excise should be and continue a perma- nent fund for the purposes aforesaid ;" that is, the payment of the interest on their certificates "until means should be provided for the payment of the principal sums specified in said certificates respectively ;" yet, by the funding bill, the interest of these certifi- cates is to be paid in paper.
The answer also objects to the manner in which we mentioned the acts of March, 1783, and their supplements in the September following. Here seems to have been some mistake of our meaning. We mentioned them to show that distinctions had been made by the Legislature, and the funding bill itself makes distinctions.
There appears to have been another mistake as to what we said concerning " buyers of certificates being led by general conver- sation upon the subject, and by the tenor of our laws, to contem- plate the laying them out in purchasing lands." The truth is so notorious, that we did really hope we might be excused for noticing it, for the purpose, not of revoking any engagement contracted with such persons by the Commonwealth, but for the purpose of pre- venting any engagement being contracted with them that might be attended by several perplexing embarrassments. Besides, this observation was strengthened by being joined with "the tenor of our laws." We alluded to the act entitled " An Act for the sale of certain lands therein mentioned, for the purpose of redeeming and paying off the certificates of depreciation given to the officers and soldiers of the Pennsylvania line, or their representatives," &c., passed March the twelfth, 1783, by which the lands to be sold were to " be paid for in gold or silver, or in the certificates afore- said ;" and also, the act entitled " An Act for opening the Land office," &c., passed April the first, 1784, which enacts, that "all the aforesaid certificates of depreciation, the certificates for monies loaned to the United States by citizens of this State, or granted in the name of or for the use of such citizens, and such certificates as
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have been or may hereafter be granted to the officers and soldiers of the late Pennsylvania line, and all other depreciation certificates granted to officers and soldiers of this State, and all certificates for commutation and for arrearages of pay, and the certificates of the Commissaries, Quarter Masters and Forage Masters, and also certi- ficates for debts due to the citizens of this State from the United States, or from this State, shall be received in payment for the lands sold."
We know of no other fund established or intended, till last ses- sions, by this State, in a separate capacity, for paying the interest on the debts due by the United States to the citizens of this State. Therefore, it seems a fair " supposition," that the dealers in certi- ficates, unless they were endued with a spirit of prophecy, or some intelligence extraordinary, could not, in their traffic for them, rely upon any other fund being established by this State.
Another paragraph in the answer is either erroneous, or may lead into errors in the construction. It is said, in mentioning the national debt, and the resolutions on the 16th of December, 1782 : "Unfortunately no fund has been found by Congress to pay even the interest, or any part of it, from that time to the present." If the meaning of this clause is, " that no fund has been found by Congress" different from the mode fixed in the Confederation, it is right. But if the meaning is, " that the interest, or any part of it," has not been paid by contributions, upon requisitions from Con- gress, according to the Confederation, it is wrong.
As to the provision said to be made in New Jersey, we are not informed of the particulars. The conduct of no State can abrogate foderal duties, or alter our sentiments concerning the measures that may be proper for this Commonwealth.
We have carefully considered the many quotations in the an- swer; and, we trust, we have fully shewn, not only that they are very remote from any contradiction to the sentiments expressed in our message, but that the message strictly and faithfully adheres to the principles and purposes held forth in those quotations. With regard to the conclusion of "the address," &c , which your hon- orable House was pleased "to recommend" to our attention, we have endeavored, but find it impossible, to believe, that an address made by Congress "to the States," expressly to enforce, by " the most powerful considerations," as the answer observes, the estab- lishment of an ascertained fund, simple and productive in its na- ture, general in its principle, at the disposal of a single will, de- fined and established on the faith of the States, solemnly pledged to each other, and not revocable by any without a breach of the general compact," for these are the words of Congress, could be intended by that body to promote such a plan as is contained in the funding bill, which is directly opposite to their national, con- solidating views and designs.
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With as little success, we have tried to discover the many mis- takes in fact, from which erroneous consequences have been de- duced in the message, as the answer alledges. Could they have been discovered, they should have been acknowledged. We are not only deeply sensible how fallible we are, but also how criminal we should be by persisting in errors that might injure Pennsyl- vania.
Gentlemen, our message was, with unanimous consent, intended " to offer what information we could upon affairs of much moment" to our country." This reply, with the like unanimity, pursues the same design, and could not be earlier, as your answer was not de- livered to us till four days after your adjournment.
This mode we think as agreeable to the Constitution and to practice, as that of Conferences. Conscious of the uprightness of our intentions, we are willing that our consituents and the world should be perfectly acquainted with the motives of our conduct ; and as we are freemen, and have the honor to serve an independ- ent sovereign people, we esteem it our right and our duty to deliver our sentiments upon subjects in which they are interested, in such manner as we judge most likely to contribute to the advancement of their welfare.
JOHN DICKINSON.
COUNCIL CHAMBER, Philadelphia, February 1st, 1785.
The Comptroller General's report upon the accounts of John Weitzell, of Northumberland county, for provisions furnished in August, 1784, for the militia sent to Wioming, and of Isaac Wik- son, a soldier of Kemplin's company of Rangers raised in said county, for his pay while a prisoner with the Indians, were read and approved.
The Council met.
PHILADELPHIA, Wednesday, February, 2nd, 1785. PRESENT : His Excellency JOHN DICKINSON, Esquire, President. The Honorable JAMES IRVINE, Esquire, Vice President.
The Hon'ble Jonathan Hoge, John Boyd, ₾
Isaac Meason, John Woods,
John Neville, John McDowell, Esq'rs. John Whitehill, Daniel Hiester, and Charles Biddle, Stephen Balliot,
The Honorable James McLene, elected a member of Council for the county of Franklin, having taken the oaths of qualification as directed by the Constitution, was accordingly admitted to his seat.
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On consideration of the petition of John Lownes,
Ordered, That the Surveyor General be directed to report whether the lott mentioned in his report of the twenty-third day of July, 1782, as falling on the east side of Schuylkill Second street, between Sassafras and Vine streets, has been sold by the Common- wealth, and what were its dimensions and boundaries.
The Comptroller General's report upon the accounts of John Van Campen, Esquire, for rations furnished the Northampton county militia, upon the first Wioming expedition, was read and approved, and an order drawn in Mr. Van Campen's favor for the sum of two hundred and eighty-one pounds seventeen shillings and four pence specie, being the ballance.
The Comptroller General's report upon the accounts of John Weitzle, Esq'r, for rations furnished the Northumberland volun- teers upon the same occasion, was read and approved.
A draft of a message to the General Assembly was presented to Council, which being read, was adopted as follows, and transmitted to the House :
A message from the President and the Supreme Executive Council to the General Assembly.
GENTLEMEN :- After our message of yesterday was agreed to and nearly transcribed, we received a letter of the twenty-first of last month, from the President of Congress, which we now send with the inclosures.
The sentiments contained in these communications so perfectly correspond with those delivered in that message, and so remarkably support the arguments therein used, that we hope they will give great weight to them, and immediately engage the most serious attention of your Honorable House.
An opportunity is now offered for this State to acquire distin- guished reputation, and render an essential service to the Union, which we are very certain will be attended by very happy conse- quences to the Commonwealth.
JOHN DICKINSON.
Council Chamber, Philadelphia, February 2nd, 1785.
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The Council met.
PHILADELPHIA, Thursday, February 3rd, 1785.
PRESENT : His Excellency JOHN DICKINSON, Esquire, President.
The Honorable JAMES IRVINE, Esquire, Vice President. The Honorable Jonathan Hoge, John Woods,
Isaac Meason, John McDowell,
John Neville, Daniel Hiester,
John Whitehill,
Stephen Balliot, and
Esquires.
Charles Biddle, James McLene,
John Boyd,
Mr. Smiley and Mr. Willing, a committee from the hon'ble the General Assembly, attending in Council, gave information that the House was now formed, and that they were ready to receive such business as Council had to lay before them. On which the mes- sage approven on the first instant, and a second message read and agreed to yesterday, with its inclosures, were presented to the hon- orable the Speaker of the General Assembly by the Secretary of this Board.
Council resuming the consideration of the contested election in the Northern Liberties,
Ordered, That the said election be confirmed, and that James Loughead, Esquire, be appointed and commissioned to be a Justice of the Peace in and for the county of Philadelphia.
A return of an election of Justices of the Peace for the district of Armagh, in the county of Cumberland, was read, and William Brown, Esquire, appointed and commissioned to be a Justice of the Peace and of the Court of Common Pleas for the said county.
A return of an election of a Justice of the Peace for the district of Middleton and county of Cumberland, was read, and Samuel Irvine, Esquire, appointed and commissioned to be a Justice of the Peace and of the Court of Common Pleas in and for the said county of Cumberland.
The following orders were drawn upon the Treasurer, vizt :
In favor of his Excellency John Dickinson, Esquire, President, for the sum of six hundred and twenty-five pounds specie, being one-half year's salary, commencing the sixth day of November last.
In favor of the honorable Stephen Balliot, Esquire, for the sum of twenty-eight pounds specie, in full for his attendance in Council untill the thirty-first of January last, inclusively.
In favor of Mr. Isaac Wilson, for the sum of five pounds specie, being advanced to him on account of his pay as a soldier in Captain Thomas Kemplin's company, he being late a prisoner with the In- dians, for which he is to account.
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The Council met.
PHILADELPHIA, Friday, February 4th, 1785. PRESENT : His Excellency JOHN DICKINSON, Esquire, President.
The Honorable JAMES IRVINE, Esquire, Vice President.
The Honorable Jonathan Hoge, John Woods,
Isaac Meason, John McDowell,
John Neville, Daniel Hiester,
John Whitehill,
Stephen Balliot, and
Charles Biddle,
James McLene,
Esquires. John Boyd,
George Matthews, Esquire, was appointed a Justice of the Peace and of the Court of Common Pleas in and for the county of Frank- lin, upon a return made according to law, and he was commissioned accordingly.
' An order was drawn upon the Treasurer in favor of John Weit- zell, Esquire, for the sum of forty-three pounds seventeen shillings specie, in full of his account, approven by the minutes of this Board of the second instant.
The resolution of the General Assembly providing for the ap- pointment of Commissioners for the purpose of settling the juris- diction of the river Delaware and islands within the same, was laid before the Council, and an order taken that the said Commissioners be the Honorable George Wall, Esquire, of the county of Bucks, and Jonas Hartzell and John Okely, Esquires, of the county of Northampton.
Ordered, That these gentlemen be respectively informed of this resolution, and instructed to enter upon an immediate correspon- dence with the Commissioners of New Jersey, on the subject of their common appointment.
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The Council met.
PHILADELPHIA, Saturday, February 5th, 1785.
PRESENT :
The Honorable JAMES IRVINE, Esquire, Vice President.
Jonathan Hoge,
John Boyd,
Isaac Meason,
John Woods,
John Neville,
John McDowell,
Esquires.
John Whitehill,
Daniel Hiester, and
Charles Biddle,
Stephen Balliot,
A return of an election of Magistrates for the district of Wash- ington in the county of Fayette, was presented to Council and read.
A letter from Joseph McGerraugh to the Honorable Isaac Mea- son, complaining against the regularity of the said election, and stating, that in admitting persons to vote on this occasion, no quali- fication was required of the voter but an evidence of his having taken the oath of allegiance ; and that a former election had been held in the same place in fair and legal manner, with this exception only, that four persons had been returned instead of two, which the Inspector and Judges, therefore, had refused to sign, and the Pro- thonotary to receive.
Upon consideration of which, it was
Ordered, That Alexander McClean, John Allen, and - Fin- ley, Esquires, or any two of them, shall meet and, if possible, ob- tain from the said Inspectors, Judges, and Prothonotary, the origi- nal papers, in proof of the former election mentioned in Mr. Gar- raugh's letter, and if the evidence of its legality be clear, they (the said Inspectors, Judges, and Prothonotary,) shall make return to this Board of the two persons highest in votes in the said election. If this original proof cannot be obtained, the said Magistrates will then proceed to examine the facts attending the second and last election, and report thereon.
James Neal, Esquire, was appointed and commissioned a Justice of the Peace and of the Court of Common Pleas for the county of Fayette, upon a return made according to law.
An order was drawn upon the Treasurer in favor of Peter Yetter, for the sum of forty-nine pounds six shillings and two pence, Stato money, being the price of a horse furnished by him for the use of the public, under the resolution of General Assembly dated the eighth of April, 1782.
The Comptroller General's report upon the account of Christo- pher Hays, Esquire, of the twenty-ninth day of January, 1785, was read & approved.
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An order was drawn upon the Treasurer in favor of John Weit- zle, of the county of Northumberland, for one hundred and sixty- three pounds nine shillings and eight pence specie, in full for pro- visions furnished to Colonel James Moore's troops, stationed at Wi- oming, to be paid out of money arising from the impost in the hands of the Naval Officer, according to resolution of Assembly dated the twenty-second of September, 1783.
A letter from Charles Thomson, Esquire, inclosing a resolution of Congress, and proclamation concerning counterfeiting certificates, was read.
The Surveyor General reported upon the claims of John Lownes, agreeably to the order of Council of the second day of February, 1785, upon which it was determined that the right to the city lot described in the aforesaid report, is vested in the said John Lownes, and that the Surveyor General be directed to make return of it up- on one of the warrants mentioned in his report, in order for confir- mation.
The Council met.
PHILADELPHIA, Tuesday, February the eighth, 1785. PRESENT :
His Excellency JOHN DICKINSON, Esquire, President. The Honorable JAMES IRVINE, Esquire, Vice President.
Jonathan Hoge, John Woods,
Isaac Meason,
John McDowell,
John Neville,
Daniel Hiester,
Esquires.
John Whitehill,
Stephen Balliot, and
Charles Biddle,
James McClene,
John Boyd,
The Comptroller General's reports upon the following accounts of Robert Wilson, Esquire, Sub-Lieutenant of the county of Ches- ter, vizt : From April, 1778, to August the eleventh, 1779 ; from August the eleventh, 1779, to March the sixth, 1783 ; and from March the sixth, 1783, to April the first, 1783; were read and approved.
The Comptroller General's report upon the account of Joseph Thorney Craft, for hawling done for Captain Robinson's company of Rangers, was read and approved.
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The Council met.
PHILADELPHIA, Wednesday, February the 9th, 1785.
PRESENT :
His Excellency JOHN DICKINSON, Esquire, President. The Honorable JAMES IRVINE, Esquire, Vice President.
Jonathan Hoge, John Woods,
Isaac Meason,
John McDowell,
John Neville,
Daniel Hiester,
Esquires.
John Whitehill,
Stephen Balliot, and
Charles Biddle,
James McLene,
John Boyd,
The report of the Comptroller General upon the claims of Cap- tain Thomas Houston, to pay, commutation of half pay, and de- preciation, was read and committed-Mr. Biddle and Mr. Hiester the committee.
The accounts of Jacob Weis, Esquire, for expences in removing a British prisoner from Easton to Reading ; of John Craig, for militia supplies in 1777 ; and of John Nesbit for ditto in 1778 ; were read and approved, as reported upon by the Comptroller Gen- eral.
Orders were drawn upon the Treasurer in favor of Frederick Watts, Esquire, for the sum of five pounds eighteen shillings and nine pence, due for supplies to the army ; and of Peter Shelp, for thirty-eight pounds one shilling and six pence ; and of Isaac Klots, for the sum of thirty-five pounds ten shillings and four pence, State money, due for horses furnished by them for public service, agreea- bly to the Comptroller General's reports, to be paid according to resolution of the General Assembly dated the eighth day of April, 1782.
Timothy Green, Esquire, was appointed and commissioned a Jus- tice of the Peace and of the Court of Common Pleas in and for the county of Lancaster, upon a return made according to law, for the district of Hanover township.
The petition of Robert Kennedy, (supported by the recommen- dation of the Justices of the Court of Common Pleas, ) praying the remission of a fine and imprisonment imposed at the late Court of General Quarter Sessions of the Peace held in the county of York in July last, upon conviction of a conspiracy against the life of a certain - Simpson, was read, and an order taken that the fine aforesaid, of fifty pounds, adjudged to the use of the Common- wealth, be remitted, and that he, Robert Kennedy, be released from all further confinement upon finding sufficient security for his future good behaviour, agreeably to sentence.
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An order was drawn upon the Treasurer in favor of Captain Jo- seph Stiles, (in part of his account as Commissary of Military Stores, as reported upon by the Comptroller General,) for the sum of fifty pounds specie, for which sum he is to account.
A draft of a message to the Honorable the General Assembly was read and adopted, as follows :
A message from the President and the Supreme Executive Council to the General Assembly.
GENTLEMEN :- The Secretary will lay before you letters from the President of Congress of the twenty-fourth day of December, and a proclamation and resolutions of that Honorable body of the second instant; from the Governor of Connecticut of the twentieth of that month ; from our delegates of the nineteenth and twenty- seventh of January; and from the Commissioners for Indian Af- fairs, of the eleventh of December, with several inclosures and a number of depositions concerning the expulsion of many Pennsyl- vanians from their dwellings and possessions at and near Wioming, and other outrages committed against them by persons not claim- ing under this State.
Among the many objects deserving the attention of your Hon- orable House, one of the most important, in our judgment, is the establishment of an improved system of revenue, founded on just, and therefore salutary principles, digested in the clearest order, gov- erned by the most economical arrangement, and wherein matters of a similar nature, with all the necessary provisions relating to them, shall be classed together in the same law, so that the same parts being duly combined, all monies levied upon the citizens by public authority, may pass through as few hands as possible, without de- ceit or delay, into the Treasury.
By the act for establishing the Comptroller General's office he is directed " to keep accounts of the revenues and expenditures of the Commonwealth of every kind," and " to call persons to account for monies belonging to the State, except the Collectors of Taxes and the Treasurers of counties."
This exception tends to introduce confusion and remissness, and militates against the principal design of the act, The Comptroller General ought, we apprehend, to be furnished by the respective Commissioners with duplicates of assessments for every county, im- mediately after they are made, particularizing not only the taxes to be collected thereon, but also those outstanding on former assess- ments ; the kind of money in which they are payable ; the names and sirnames of the persons assessed ; the townships in which they reside; the names and sirnames of the Collectors, and for what districts they are appointed ; and returns of all abatements or ex- onerations. If there are afterwards any new appointments of Treasurers or Collectors, they, together with accounts of fines in-
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curred by neglect or refusal to perform the duties required by law, should be forthwith notified by the several Commissioners to the Comptroller General. He will then be enabled to call. the Trea- surers to account, and if they and the Collectors are properly en- joined to give receipts, truly dated, for taxes paid ; never to retain more than certain moderate sums in their hands at any one time ; and in their accounts rendered, to ascertain the day when every sum was received and paid; many mischiefs would be prevented. The Treasurers should be empowered to compel Collectors to a per- formance of their duty. The Comptroller General should be bound always to report to Council the delinquent officers' names, and in or about the month of December in every year, to publish and dis- tribute through the counties the accounts of every County Treasu- rer, specifying in the order of townships, the names and sirnames of the persons who have paid their taxes ; the sums paid ; the kind of money ; the times when and the officers to whom ; and also a list of those who have not paid, and of the sums due by them.
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